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Help,organ scholars!

Thinking of applying for organ scholarship to oxbridge but have lots of questions.1. Are you at a disadvantage if you don't study music (i'm considering maths or music)? 2.Does the time commitment make it difficult to take part in other musical activities eg orchestras / operas? 3. Is it in fact very stressful and not worth it unless you want to be an organist (I'm first study violin, second study voice) and should I apply for instrumental award instead (or can you do both?) 4. do people crack up under the stress and give it up? Can you even? 5. Does it vary greatly from college to college and if so what is a really good college that isn't a choral foundation(I'm grade 8 distinction but no better than that)? 6. Can you ever choose the repertoire? 7. Is the music course very academic and which uni offers more opportunity for performance? 8. would i be better off at consevatoire if I want a fair amount of performance opportunities? 9. What is the main advantage of being an organ scholar (and I know about the better rooms etc) in terms of future career in music? Any other feedback from organists / musicians??? Sorry for all the questions!

Reply 1

llys

Sorry I cannot help & I'm not sure if there currently are many organ scholars on here, however, you might want (in addition to this topic) to try on the ABRSM forums, I have seen people there discussing Oxbridge organ scholarships. I'm sure they could help you out.

Reply 2

The_Lonely_Goatherd

goldensyrup

Heya! Am not an organ scholar, but am college-married to our Senior Organ Scholar :love:

Oxford-specific stuff:

1. Some colleges (e.g. I think Worcester does this) specify that the Organ Scholar must be applying for Music; otherwise, it's not really a disadvantage if you're not! I know a guy at Cambridge doing Geography, but he's the Junior Organ Scholar at the mo.

2. Time commitment obviously depends on how many services a week your college does and whether the college has a boys choir, but organ scholars generally have an active role in the college music society either playing or directing an ensemble, putting on the operas/musicals, plus they often get lumbered with accompanying people as one of the unofficial duties!

3. How stressful it is and whether it is worth it again depends on how many services the college does and whether there's a boys choir, as well as how many organ scholars there are (some colleges have 3!). Some people (my hubby included) find it very rewarding, but it is admittedly a lot of work if you're not considering a career as an organist. Most colleges have Instrumental Awards and these are much less stressful: you have one audition and if you're successful, all you have to do (well, at Worcester at least!) is take an active role in the musical life of the college.

4. Some of the organ scholars I know have had a rough time, but it's not really something you can quit without leaving the uni altogether (or at least that's the impression that I get!).

5. It does vary greatly from college to college. I dunno much about choral stuff, but good choirs that aren't in foundation colleges include Worcester ( :biggrin:

), St. Peter's and The Queen's College.

6. As far as I can tell, repertoire is negotiated between the organ scholars (though mainly the senior), the chaplain and the Director of Chapel Music if there is one.

7. Both are very academic courses. Refer to my PM for details :smile:

8. Depends what you mean by performance opportunities. The great thing about both Oxford and Cambridge is that music is done at a university and collegiate level, so there are ridiculous numbers of ensembles to get involved with! Most colleges have some form of informal recital series (at Oxford, not sure about Cambridge), so there's the chance to do solo recitals as well. My first instrument is piano and my second is violin, but I play the violin much more than I do the piano. I'm in the university orchestra and do favours for various college orchestras, as well as conducting my college one! There's no way I'd have been able to do all that had I gone to a conservatoire.

9. Career-wise, you build up a good network of contacts of both academic tutors and organists (for references and recommendations), plus your fellow organ scholars (you never know where they will end up!)! I've been taught by a fairly famous organist and I don't even play the organ! :biggrin:

Hope that answers some of your questions. There aren't many Oxbridge music students on here. I'm the most regular Oxford person (I'm not on here lots :ninja:

) and the most regular Cambridge graduate is musicbloke. There's another Cambridge student on here but I can't remember his name :smile:

Reply 3

Turdburger

The_Lonely_Goatherd

Hope that answers some of your questions. There aren't many Oxbridge music students on here. I'm the most regular Oxford person (I'm not on here lots :ninja:

) and the most regular Cambridge graduate is musicbloke. There's another Cambridge student on here but I can't remember his name :smile:

Lies

Reply 4

Huw Davies

I've known one organ scholar resign the post.

Reply 5

llys

Huw Davies

I've known one organ scholar resign the post.

Just out of curiosity, why? Too much work?

I think it depends on which college you go etc., that reminds me (OP), Cambridge actually made a movie about organ scholars! Let me just go and find it...

EDIT: Here it is - in the menu on the left, click on "Admissions". Then in the list on the right, the first movie is about organ (and choral) scholarships at Cambridge. :smile:

Reply 6

Huw Davies

llys

Just out of curiosity, why? Too much work?

Partly (in combination with quite a bit of academic pressure from the college). Got the impression that as an atheist she found it rather an uncomfortable environment - didn't bother any of the atheist\Jewish\pagan singers, but as the OS you are more involved in running the chapel and spending time with the chaplain.

Reply 7

Satis

Huw Davies

Trinity's, about four years ago? If not, that makes two of them.

You can stop if you're finding it seriously stressful, obviously your prime reason for being here is academic, but it's not ideal for anyone really. Circumstancial always. People have done, and you don't have to leave Oxford, but it's really rare.

To add to The Lonely Goatherd's comments:

1. It says in the prospectus - look on the Oxford website, it has college specific requirements, the most common of which are that medics probably shouldn't. It isn't required, but the majority are music students. You may like to think about it carefully if conducting/organ aren't your primary study, and if you aren't going to do music: you will make really good musical contacts, and spend an awful lot of time doing conducting and organ; if you aren't intending to be a cathedral musician or conductor, the time commitment in colleges that have more than maybe two services might not be worth it.
If you're unsure whether you'll be disadvantaged, write to the Head of Music or Director of Chapel Music at the colleges you're interested and ask :smile:

2. Like Shan says, depends on the college. But no, not necessarily - contrary to popular belief, you can do more than one activity at Oxford! If you're at a foundation college or Worcester, you'd be hard pressed to do operas - but having said that, there's a New Choral scholar and a Magdalen choral scholar in Out of the Blue, which is a v. intense a cappella group, I'm Pres of the female equivalent and sing four services a week as a choral clerk at Worcester....
College wise, St Peters current Senior conducted last years opera, and is doing this years as well; Worcester's Senior was repititeur in Worcester's summer opera.
Depends how much time you want to spend doing music, and what college, and how bothered you are about having to do a few very late nights for work.

3. Apply for an instrumental award if you're looking at colleges that offer them, or, at Pembroke, a 'vocal scholarship'. Means you get paid but basically have no obligations...

5. If you're Grade 8 distinction, you will be more than fine.

6. Most colleges, the Organ scholars ALWAYS choose the repertoire. If you have a Director of Music, they may have some say, as does the Chaplain, but it's your choice pretty much entirely.

Hope this helps x

Reply 8

The_Lonely_Goatherd

Satis

College wise, St Peters current Senior conducted last years opera, and is doing this years as well; Worcester's Senior was repititeur in Worcester's summer opera.
Depends how much time you want to spend doing music, and what college, and how bothered you are about having to do a few very late nights for work.

Hope this helps x

Until we all got sacked :rofl:

Reply 9

The_Lonely_Goatherd

Turdburger

Lies

Reply 10

goldensyrup

Thanks everyone! I'm pretty new to this site and am amazed how quickly people post and how much advice you can get. I'm assuming none of you know of an organ scholar who also has an instrumental award? And can you suggest a nice college that is strong in music but doesn't have loads of services? Thanks again everyone.

Reply 11

Satis

I suppose technically there's no reason why you couldn't have an instrumental and an organ scholarship at once....

Good music but not many services: Merton is pumping a load of money in at the moment. Hertford is two services a week and has a fantastically active music society. St Peters is very strong musically but only two (?) services per week.

Reply 12

Huw Davies

Satis

Trinity's, about four years ago? If not, that makes two of them.

No, John's two years ago.

John's do two services, were a pretty good choir (when I was a member :wink:

), and seem to have a lot of money to throw around.

Oriel do two and have good dinners etc. for the choir, struggling a bit at the moment though.

Incidentally if anyone needs a dep (bass) I am now free on Sunday evenings and trying to whore around as much as possible.