The Student Room Group
Reply 1
I am against it.

No, I don't think it's a serious breach of civil liberties in itself, but I believe it has the potential to be dangerous and is a highly symbolic gesture.

Costly? Yes. Unnecessary? So far as I can see. If 'identity theft' etc are such great problems, then leave it to financial institutions, consumers and other interested parties to work out a solution.
Reply 2
there seems to be a misconception. the following will be held on the ID card
* name
* address
* gender
* date and place of birth
* immigration status
* fingerprints
* facial image


i only see the ones to be in bold to be dangerous, regarding fraud and identity theft. cause the other information is readily available. ie facebook

source : http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/passports-and-immigration/id-cards/how-the-data-will-be-used/
Reply 3
trigun
there seems to be a misconception. the following will be held on the ID card
* name
* address
* gender
* date and place of birth
* immigration status
* fingerprints
* facial image


i only see the ones to be in bold to be dangerous, regarding fraud and identity theft. cause the other information is readily available. ie facebook

source : http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/passports-and-immigration/id-cards/how-the-data-will-be-used/


What? You are assuming that:

(1) Everyone has Facebook
(2) Everyone displays their address on Facebook
(3) No one has any privacy settings on Facebook
Reply 4
its just an example. there is probably many places where a frauder can obtain the information mentioned. especially now since internet is becoming a tools for cyber fraud. especially from what ive read people details being stolen via wireless access points in internet cafes etc.
If this deffo. happening then?
Reply 6
sd_11
Are you for or against this highly controversial issue?

Do you think it is a breach of our civil liberties (and why)?

Do you think it's too costly? Do you think it's unnecessary?

I personally am vehemently opposed to the scheme. It's very expensive, unnecessary, does not prevent terrorism and is a waste of time.

Opinions?


I don't have any strong objections, and I can see the benefits with regards to identity fraud (only one unique set of biometric data can be registered to the database). However, if it is not compulsory for everyone to have one this benefit would be lost and negates the necessity of the id card on this basis.

I do object to the proposed cost to each individual (£30 or an extra £21 if purchased with passport). The government likes to downplay the indirect cost to the taxpayer by saying that biometric data will need to be taken to go on passports anyway, so they may aswell implement the id scheme alongside this. So it looks inevitable really.

In France, the id card is very widely used and accepted by the population but it is FREE! The french id card enables you to travel within the EU. A lot of people in France do not register for a full passport because of this. This will also be true for UK id card so saves a few pounds on buying a passport. Aside from this, I don't see any significant benefit for an individual that already holds a passport and/or driving licence.

OP, what are your reasons for thinking it is a waste of time? Do you think it breaches our civil liberties?
Reply 7
*Passion*Fruit*
If this deffo. happening then?


Only if the people re-elect Labour.
Reply 8
natural_han
I don't have any strong objections, and I can see the benefits with regards to identity fraud (only one unique set of biometric data can be registered to the database). However, if it is not compulsory for everyone to have one this benefit would be lost and negates the necessity of the id card on this basis.

I do object to the proposed cost to each individual (£30 or an extra £21 if purchased with passport). The government likes to downplay the indirect cost to the taxpayer by saying that biometric data will need to be taken to go on passports anyway, so they may aswell implement the id scheme alongside this. So it looks inevitable really.

In France, the id card is very widely used and accepted by the population but it is FREE! The french id card enables you to travel within the EU. A lot of people in France do not register for a full passport because of this. This will also be true for UK id card so saves a few pounds on buying a passport. Aside from this, I don't see any significant benefit for an individual that already holds a passport and/or driving licence.

OP, what are your reasons for thinking it is a waste of time? Do you think it breaches our civil liberties?


On the other hand, I feel that ID cards will increase identity fraud. If someone steals an ID card, look at all the information they potentially have at their disposal: full name, address, biometric data etc. And if a hacking organisation manages to hack their way into the centralised system, they have the identities of millions of people at their fingertips.

I read that the cost per taxpayer is £200 for the scheme itself, on top of another £100 for the actual card.

I didn't know it was free in France. :eek:

I think it's a waste of time because it's simply unnecessary. Why do we need it? Our system with passports and such works fine as it is. The Government claims ID cards will prevent (or at least reduce) terrorism. I think that that's complete and utter rubbish. Firstly, because a terrorist organisation would not find it difficult I'd imagine to forge ID cards. Secondly, terrorists do not have to be from abroad - as we saw in the Glasgow airport incident the terrorists were British doctors, if I remember correctly.

I've read and heard that people feel it's a breach of civil liberties. I don't really understand why, though, apart from the fact that you're being forced to carry around a card against your will?
Reply 9
Incidentally, does anyone know the cost of replacing a lost ID card? Will +rep.
Absolutely no, an expensive waste of money and resources that will not achieve anything. In fact it (plus the whole other raft of civil liberty eroding ideas) is one of the main reasons I will not vote Labour at the next general election.
Vesta
Incidentally, does anyone know the cost of replacing a lost ID card? Will +rep.


I don't think that the prices have been officially set yet, the home office website only says what they "intend" to charge.
Reply 12
natural_han
I don't think that the prices have been officially set yet, the home office website only says what they "intend" to charge.


Thanks :smile:
sd_11
On the other hand, I feel that ID cards will increase identity fraud. If someone steals an ID card, look at all the information they potentially have at their disposal: full name, address, biometric data etc. And if a hacking organisation manages to hack their way into the centralised system, they have the identities of millions of people at their fingertips.


Yes, I see what you are saying. My first thoughts were that if everyone were forced to have a card then noone could steal anyone elses' identity. However, I see that this would only be valid for organisations that are accredited with the scheme, so it seems that your identity could be stolen and used with any un-accredited organisations.

sd_11
I've read and heard that people feel it's a breach of civil liberties. I don't really understand why, though, apart from the fact that you're being forced to carry around a card against your will?


On the home office website, it says that you will not be forced to carry the card. This confuses me further as to its necessity......

The system proposed seems a bit half-hearted. I could only see the scheme having the desired effects if everyone in the country were forced to have one and forced to carry it, and if every business were accredited with the scheme. However, this method would make the UK less like a free country.
Reply 14
natural_han

On the home office website, it says that you will not be forced to carry the card. This confuses me further as to its necessity......


Ah yes, the "voluntary" aspect of ID Cards. They'll be "voluntary", in the sense that you won't be forced to get one, but if you want medical treatment, benefits, a bank account, the right to vote etc you'll have to have one.

I am completely opposed to ID Cards. They will not stop terrorism, they will not stop identity theft and they will not stop illegal immigration. They are nothing but a control mechanism and data gathering exercise for Labour to continue their tyranny, and an unnecessary waste of money.

Despite the fact that taxes will fund this billion pound waste of money, when it becomes mandatory people will be expected to pay for the privilege!
Teigan
Ah yes, the "voluntary" aspect of ID Cards. They'll be "voluntary", in the sense that you won't be forced to get one, but if you want medical treatment, benefits, a bank account, the right to vote etc you'll have to have one.

I am completely opposed to ID Cards. They will not stop terrorism, they will not stop identity theft and they will not stop illegal immigration. They are nothing but a control mechanism and data gathering exercise for Labour to continue their tyranny, and an unnecessary waste of money.

Despite the fact that taxes will fund this billion pound waste of money, when it becomes mandatory people will be expected to pay for the privilege!


Good post. I like this quote from the Home Office website:

Myths
You’ll have to carry a card
You will not have to carry an ID card, although you may find it simple and convenient to do so. In fact the Act specifically prohibits making the carrying of an ID card compulsory.


Simple and convenient.. ha ha. I think that is some kind of euphemism.

With regards to payment for the id card, can the government actually make you pay for something that is compulsory? The government say that there is no time-tabled plan to make it compulsory but I don't believe this because otherwise most "benefits" of the scheme will be lost. For example I can't see that many criminals will sign up if it is voluntary..
Reply 16
natural_han
For example I can't see that many criminals will sign up if it is voluntary..


In that case, the government may find it "simple and convenient" to arrest all people without ID cards on the assumption that they are criminals. If people didn't feel that their civil liberties were breached the first time around, why would they then?
Reply 17
natural_han
Good post. I like this quote from the Home Office website:

Myths
You’ll have to carry a card
You will not have to carry an ID card, although you may find it simple and convenient to do so. In fact the Act specifically prohibits making the carrying of an ID card compulsory.


Simple and convenient.. ha ha. I think that is some kind of euphemism.

With regards to payment for the id card, can the government actually make you pay for something that is compulsory? The government say that there is no time-tabled plan to make it compulsory but I don't believe this because otherwise most "benefits" of the scheme will be lost. For example I can't see that many criminals will sign up if it is voluntary..


'Simple and convenient' :rolleyes: Yeah it will be simple and convincement for criminals; putting all proof of identity in one place is just asking for fraud to happen. And anyone with serious criminal intent won't even need to touch one to steal someone's data, because Labour intend to use RFID chips in the ID cards.

If they don't make it compulsory, they'll just make it even harder to function in society without one e.g make it so people can't get jobs without one.

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