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Errrr what?
Reply 2
Yeah and while you were just typing that, this was still happening:

http://www.world-crisis.com/news/859_0_1_0_C/

My point is that there are problems all over the world at any given time, but it doesn't mean every person needs to give an unwavering support and observation to every conflict at all times.

During the ongoing problems in Gaza, the most pathetic and frankly diabolical counter-argument I heard to people trying to expose the situation was just like the OP's argument: "why don't you concentrate on another crisis instead".
Reply 3
muttsnuts

During the ongoing problems in Gaza, the most pathetic and frankly diabolical counter-argument I heard to people trying to expose the situation was just like the OP's argument: "why don't you concentrate on another crisis instead".


This is not the question. Rather, the question is:

"Why do concentrate only on this crisis?"
Reply 4
I do see the point raised that it is a weak argument to say "why not concentrate on another crisis instead", however i do not think that is what the OP means. Indeed I think this represents a bit of a misunderstanding in general.

I find it very telling that, for example, the incident in the Congo has been going on for a long time and we hear occassional news stories and some aid agencies are pretty worried, but really everything is quiet. Then Israel goes into Gaza (and behaves in a far far incomparably better way than either side in the Congo) and there are near riots in the streets, dozens of angry threads on TSR, even Facebook becomes politicised, news stories every day etc

obviously people are aware of the congo and it is reported, but people are far less politicised about it, and it does get less airtime considering what is happening there. It would probably be futile to argue otherwise.

Nobody is saying "just concentrate on another crisis", they are saying "why the hell do you not concentrate on humanitarian incidents in a humanitarian way??" (i.e. without bias or partiality, and by actually looking at the human cost). People have an axe to grind in gaza, so when there is an incident there people take it very seriously, but nobody seems quite so fussed about massively worse and less justified things happening all over the world.

lol, i bet if this thread was entitled "look what was happening while you were thinking about the Congo" and it contained an article about Gaza, we would already be inundated with comments saying "shocking - Israel is at it again" and "war crimes" etc etc etc.

So why is this? There are lots of possibilities: it could be to do with our attitude towards Africa (but what about other crises around the world), it could be that we are trying to cleanse our guilt over the mandate period ("we didn't set this up, its the Jews") or the holocaust ("oh dear, look how bad the Jews are - guess we can somehow forgive ourselves for not taking the refugees now") etc.

Criticism of Israel is sometimes justified, but usually hypocritical.

*ducks the angry replies which probably prove his point*
borismor
While some people here indulged in "Israel - bashing", this happened:

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/02/16/un-send-more-troops-dr-congo-1

But hey - I guess as long as no Muslims get hurt...

Note that in a similar period to that of the operation in Gaza around 800 civilians got killed - No F16 involved.

And some people claim Israel wasn't careful enough in Gaza...


Europeans hold Israel to a higher standard and love to criticize it. It's the same thing with the United States. Look at how a prison full of terrorists on an island became such an international PR nightmare for the US. It doesn't matter that there are bigger issues around the world than gitmo.

My advice to Israel is to just forget about the Europe. Europe is always going to criticize and find fault with everything America or Israel does. The worst thing Israel could do is elect a limp-wristed that is only interested in pleasing Europe instead of the electorate.
Reply 6
In the space of a few weeks, 200,000 Sri Lankans were dispossessed and in the space of two months 6,400 Sri Lankans have been killed. Interesting, no?
Made in the USA
Europeans hold Israel to a higher standard and love to criticize it. It's the same thing with the United States. Look at how a prison full of terrorists on an island became such an international PR nightmare for the US. It doesn't matter that there are bigger issues around the world than gitmo.

My advice to Israel is to just forget about the Europe. Europe is always going to criticize and find fault with everything America or Israel does. The worst thing Israel could do is elect a limp-wristed that is only interested in pleasing Europe instead of the electorate.


"Forget about the Europe?" What? Seriously, I really wish the British government wasn't so blindly supportive of the US (particularly in the past)...
Reply 8
Why do you hate freedom?
Made in the USA
Europeans hold Israel to a higher standard and love to criticize it. It's the same thing with the United States. Look at how a prison full of terrorists on an island became such an international PR nightmare for the US. It doesn't matter that there are bigger issues around the world than gitmo.

My advice to Israel is to just forget about the Europe. Europe is always going to criticize and find fault with everything America or Israel does. The worst thing Israel could do is elect a limp-wristed that is only interested in pleasing Europe instead of the electorate.

You can't really play down Guantanamo Bay like that...

However, there are crises all over the world, and we should focus on them all, yes. If this proves to be impossible, however, then it shouldn't be the reason for shunning coverage of all crises.
Reply 10
Stressworthy
"Forget about the Europe?" What? Seriously, I really wish the British government wasn't so blindly supportive of the US (particularly in the past)...


well to be fair what use is pleasing Europe to Israel? I mean the European population is so hopelessly unaware that they think Israel is some kind of pariah, and the governments don't really offer much in the way of support...

Europe is pretty pathetic really - its filled with hypocritical moralising nations with puny armies, big mouths and tiny heads.

/massive generalisation
Reply 11
Celtic_Anthony


However, there are crises all over the world, and we should focus on them all, yes. If this proves to be impossible, however, then it shouldn't be the reason for shunning coverage of all crises.


But it should make one ubious when consistently, only 1 conflict is EVER mentioned and only one country is ever really criticised by the public. Focusing on even ONE other would probably be sufficient, tbh.

I created a thread about the situation in DRC, only 22 replies (half of which were from ME), yet israel seems to provoke an anger that is not present for any other situation or country....
danielf90
But it should make one ubious when consistently, only 1 conflict is EVER mentioned and only one country is ever really criticised by the public. Focusing on even ONE other would probably be sufficient, tbh.

I created a thread about the situation in DRC, only 22 replies (half of which were from ME), yet israel seems to provoke an anger that is not present for any other situation or country....

People probably feel a greater connection to Israel- due to us drawing up the plans for it and being in charge of the land there for some time- and the USA- due the increasing Americanisation occurring here and the ties between the countries- than DR Congo. Therefore, conflicts involving these countries are going to generate more interest. There are also always two sides to debate on these conflicts, giving the media an incentive to concentrate on them. It's certainly not "right", but I'm not convinced it's due to anti-semitism or anti-Israeli sentiment.
Celtic_Anthony
People probably feel a greater connection to Israel- due to us drawing up the plans for it and being in charge of the land there for some time- and the USA- due the increasing Americanisation occurring here and the ties between the countries- than DR Congo. Therefore, conflicts involving these countries are going to generate more interest. There are also always two sides to debate on these conflicts, giving the media an incentive to concentrate on them. It's certainly not "right", but I'm not convinced it's due to anti-semitism or anti-Israeli sentiment.


I beg to differ. Whenever Israel does something wrong the Muslim population of TSR is up in arms. All the anti-Israel rallies around the country are populated by Muslims and hard left wingers. It is certainly an anti-Israeli sentiment, and screams of "Hamas! Hamas! Jews back to the gas!" is probably telling that this anti-Israeli sentiment is at least partially motivated by anti-semitism.
Reply 14
borismor
This is not the question. Rather, the question is:

"Why do concentrate only on this crisis?"



do you really need to ask?
It's because Israel is a developed country, it is a democracy, it has good internal human rights etc. etc.

the congo rebels aren't human, who do we protest against? all we can do is hope the un does something about it.

Israel on the other hand, we can protest against.
Bateman
do you really need to ask?
It's because Israel is a developed country, it is a democracy, it has good internal human rights etc. etc.

the congo rebels aren't human, who do we protest against? all we can do is hope the un does something about it.

Israel on the other hand, we can protest against.


So our greater morality is a reason to criticize us to a greater degree? We are punished for our care for human life? Pathetic that we would be better off were we less human.
PeeWeeDan
I beg to differ. Whenever Israel does something wrong the Muslim population of TSR is up in arms. All the anti-Israel rallies around the country are populated by Muslims and hard left wingers. It is certainly an anti-Israeli sentiment, and screams of "Hamas! Hamas! Jews back to the gas!" is probably telling that this anti-Israeli sentiment is at least partially motivated by anti-semitism.

I wasn't really discussing TSR's focus, though, more the media's in general. I cannot speak for the demo's around the country, but all the one's up here have been keen to emphasise that their problem is with the state of Israel, not its inhabitants (although many of the demonstrators, truth be told, are also easily-led fuds and it wouldn't be surprising if they didn't in fact know what they were protesting about). I certainly haven't heard the sentiments about Jews, but I've went from being a protester to avoiding anything remotely like a demo.

As for the Muslims, I can't say I'm surprised or that much can be read into it. The Hibs marches up here are majority Catholic of Irish descent (at some point or t'other) due to the ties of religion, national identity and, a lot of the time, family. I imagine the same would be said for the pro-Palestinian muslims?

I'm not going to argue against the point that anti-semitism is a feature of some people or groups, even, at these events, but I can't say that it has been an overt driving force in the anti-Israeli protests.
Celtic_Anthony
I wasn't really discussing TSR's focus, though, more the media's in general. I cannot speak for the demo's around the country, but all the one's up here have been keen to emphasise that their problem is with the state of Israel, not its inhabitants (although many of the demonstrators, truth be told, are also easily-led fuds and it wouldn't be surprising if they didn't in fact know what they were protesting about). I certainly haven't heard the sentiments about Jews, but I've went from being a protester to avoiding anything remotely like a demo.

As for the Muslims, I can't say I'm surprised or that much can be read into it. The Hibs marches up here are majority Catholic of Irish descent (at some point or t'other) due to the ties of religion, national identity and, a lot of the time, family. I imagine the same would be said for the pro-Palestinian muslims?

I'm not going to argue against the point that anti-semitism is a feature of some people or groups, even, at these events, but I can't say that it has been an overt driving force in the anti-Israeli protests.


Whether anti-Israeli sentiments are manifestations of anti-semitic sentiments has always been a question I've asked myself. At first I thought it was ridiculous: It's a new age, people are done hating the Jews, but over the years I have began to change my mind. You always hear people saying "the Jews control America", "the Jews control the media" etc. and try to justify them as if they were fact. These kinds of anti-semitic libels are endemic in the Western world, most notably and most outrageously in both academic institutions and Jewish institutions(Finkelstein I'm looking at you). I truly now believe that there is an anti-semitic motivation to anti-Israeli demonstrations and sentiments, because most despise simply the idea of a Jewish state existing anywhere... which is clearly anti-semitic.
PeeWeeDan
Whether anti-Israeli sentiments are manifestations of anti-semitic sentiments has always been a question I've asked myself. At first I thought it was ridiculous: It's a new age, people are done hating the Jews, but over the years I have began to change my mind. You always hear people saying "the Jews control America", "the Jews control the media" etc. and try to justify them as if they were fact. These kinds of anti-semitic libels are endemic in the Western world, most notably and most outrageously in both academic institutions and Jewish institutions(Finkelstein I'm looking at you). I truly now believe that there is an anti-semitic motivation to anti-Israeli demonstrations and sentiments, because most despise simply the idea of a Jewish state existing anywhere... which is clearly anti-semitic.

Fair enough, have heard those sentiments myself and can't believe they persist. I haven't looked into this and, therefore, can only rely on personal experience. Naturally, your personal experience will be much greater than mine and your "finger is on the pulse", as they say.

It's an abhorrent thought, right enough.
Reply 19
PeeWeeDan
I beg to differ. Whenever Israel does something wrong the Muslim population of TSR is up in arms. All the anti-Israel rallies around the country are populated by Muslims and hard left wingers. It is certainly an anti-Israeli sentiment, and screams of "Hamas! Hamas! Jews back to the gas!" is probably telling that this anti-Israeli sentiment is at least partially motivated by anti-semitism.


lol trust me theres more than that

I dont see why its so easy for israelis to ignore the 100's of orphans theyve left on their own. Im not a one side supporter and understand that there are some israelis that have been hurt and left as orphans or widows.

But for every 1 israeli that was attacked by hamas...there must 20 palestinians attacked by israel [totally made up figures but thats what it seems like]

please dont take this as an argument im just saying what i feel

all criticisms welcome :smile:

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