This discussion is now closed.

Check out other Related discussions

Doctors Blamed For 8 Year-Old's Death

i don't understand how it is the doctor's fault...her parents REALISED their child was not eating for 2 weeks and still never did anything about it,...and why did they let their child starve herself for 2 weeks :s-smilie:

,aftr a day shouldn't they have gone to see a doctor :s-smilie:

Reply 41

belis

17

Myoclonic Jerk

The doctor would have prescribed the drinks assuming the parents could get the child to drink them... I don't think that's such an unreasonable assumption.

I don't think that it is doctors job to make assumptions. Did they ask directly how much the child is eating and driking? Aside of the fact that I think that it is totaly inappropriate to assess young child for potential dyhadration over the phone without an examination the question remain whether a proper and detailed history was taken. Parents are to blame, fair enough. But we have duty of care towards the child and the fact that parents are 'poor historians' (to express it in a PC way) should not stay in a way of an adaquate assesment.

Not to mention that even if parents could get her to drink those build up drinks at that stage they were not an appropriate treatment. Ofcourse GP did not know how badly dyhadrated she was but this brings me back to the fact that I believe she should be seen face to face.

I am all in favour of phone consultations. For advice. Not for assesment of serious illness and particulary not in children. I strongly believe that if new prescription is being issued then should have at least a quick glance at the patient. Feel free to disagree but personaly I would not agree to prescribe new treatment over the phone.

I am intrested to hear about the outcome of the inquest into this case.

Reply 42

belis

17

flowermaster91

i don't understand how it is the doctor's fault...her parents REALISED their child was not eating for 2 weeks and still never did anything about it,...and why did they let their child starve herself for 2 weeks :s-smilie:

,aftr a day shouldn't they have gone to see a doctor :s-smilie:

The point is that they traid to do something about it. They called the hospital-refused admission. Called the GP-given inappropriate (IMO) advice. At this stage they should have just go straight to AE. The question is why they thought they couldn't? Were they really that stupid and lacking on common sence? Should they be blamed for following advice given to them by various professionals? Is it right to shift all the responsibility to parents? There loads of kids out there with unfit parents. It is healthcare professionals responsibility to identify them IMO. Fair enough that it is not always possible but I am not entairly sure if we can say that everything possible was done in this case.

Reply 43

Magnanimity

14

Alex L

But...but she's terrified of dentists, the doctors should have left them in :rofl:

If I didn't treat people who were scared, there'd be no work for me at all!! :woo:

Reply 44

belis

17

Wangers

Then it turns on whether they'd told the GP darling x hasn't drunk and will not drink.

Should the GP not asked out of their own initiative? Over the past few weeks I had it drilled into me that most important questions when assesing a child are those about drinking and passing urine. Basic stuff.

Reply 45

belis

17

junglemonkey

I don't think it would have been a light decision. Presumably the girl had a GA as is standard for a full clearance as this girl had. Her teeth must have been in a total state, leaving them would have put her at risk for all sorts of systemic problems... It would have been irresponsible to not take them out if they were in poor condition.

This wouldn't have happened if the parents just brushed/supervised brushing/gave a crap about her teeth! It's 4 minutes out the day ffs.

Aparently there was nothing wrong with her teeth as such. She had broken one on a sweet and had to have treatment for it under GA due to her pre-existing phobia (her tongue was cut in some way during routine check up a couple of years previously and that left her scared of the dentist). Decision was made to remove all her remaining milk teeth 'to avoid further trauma'. Clearly it did not work that well.

Reply 46

Magnanimity

14

belis

Aparently there was nothing wrong with her teeth as such. She had broken one on a sweet and had to have treatment for it under GA due to her pre-existing phobia (her tongue was cut in some way during routine check up a couple of years previously and that left her scared of the dentist). Decision was made to remove all her remaining milk teeth 'to avoid further trauma'. Clearly it did not work that well.

Well that is totally irresponsible. If they took out healthy teeth then that's ridiculous.

Reply 47

Myoclonic Jerk

8

belis

Ofcourse GP did not know how badly dyhadrated she was but this brings me back to the fact that I believe she should be seen face to face.

I am all in favour of phone consultations. For advice. Not for assesment of serious illness and particulary not in children.

So the parents should have taken the child to A&E for a face to face consultation.

How was the GP to know the seriousness of the situation? - It's the parents' job to take the child to see a professional when the child is in such an obviously bad state, not the professional's job to hunt the child down just to see if everything is ok...

I don't think the child's death can be blamed on the fact that a phone consultation was offered - they weren't forced to phone the GP, after all. If the parents had any common sense, they would have taken the initiative and gone to A&E.

Phone consultations are a great way of saving GPs' time and efficiency for minor issues, in my opinion, and if the GP suspected that the situation was half as serious as it actually was I'm sure they would have acted differently.

Reply 48

belis

17

Experts seem to agree that there was a degree of failure on the part of medical team. Not only the parents. I feel a bit like playing a devil advocate but I don't think that it is right to blame the parents entairly for what has happened.

During that time she had refused to eat or drink and her weight had fallen to just three stone. Dr Arnon Bentovim, a consultant at Great Ormond Street Hospital, told the inquest there had been a failure by medical teams.

He said that Sophie was suffering a rare condition known as pervasive refusal syndrome and that she should have been given a full psychological examination before the tooth surgery. He said: “There was a failure to ensure that her ongoing medical care was fully managed and planned. This is a complex matter to manage. Clearly the parents were at sea and would have valued the ongoing support of an informed nature about her nutritional needs. She could have been hiding the fact she was not eating or even spitting out food.”

Dr Charles Holm, a consultant paediatrician, said that Sophie and her parents should have been given more medical support. He said: “There were outstanding questions and a lack of communication with primary medical carers.

“It would have been easy for hospital staff to have just picked up a telephone and spoke to the GP, but that was not done. This girl should have had a full psychological assessment before she had several of her primary teeth removed. This was a very major procedure for a small child.”

Dr Holme said that it would have been possible for Sophie to be nearly fatally ill without her parents realising how sick she was. “If you are alongside somebody everyday you might not notice the deterioration. If she had been seen by a medical professional they would have noticed.

“They are often more subtle changes. I would have expected Sophie to be more monitored.”

Reply 49

belis

17

Myoclonic Jerk

How was the GP to know the seriousness of the situation? - It's the parents' job to take the child to see a professional when the child is in such an obviously bad state, not the professional's job to hunt the child down just to see if everything is ok...

By getting a proper histrory of her fluid and food intake? By insisting that a child with potential dehydation be brought in for a face to face consultation/taken to AE? Parents have responsibilities but all healthcare professionals have duty to protect children. It is actualy our job to implement proper child survilence measures 'to see if everything is ok'. Ever heard about children at risk registers, health visitors etc? Every child matters blah blah blah
It is a said state of afair but there are plety of parents out there who cannot be trusted with looking after an ill child for a variaty of reasons.

Reply 50

Andrii

17

Renal

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090216/tuk-dental-phobia-doctors-blamed-after-8-a7ad41d.html

Doctors? Where the **** is the blame for med rec and the outsourced admin-on-the-cheap?

I don't see why the doctors are being blamed. Who on earth lets their 8 year old stay without food for two weeks? Its irrelevant that they called a psychologist who told them it's alright! Have they ever heard of common sense??!
"Oh really my child has not eaten for the past week or so is this alright? really? fine them we'll just watch her die!"
Sorry for the sarcasm but it's outrageous! She's not eating you take her to A & E !
Another thing.... what the hell was the dentist thinking?? Removing 8 teeth from a child!! That would've bloody terrified me!!! Did they not think for a second that the poor child might be traumatized by the experience? :mad:

Reply 51

reasonsunknown

One of the reports says that she'd begun eating and drinking again just a few days before her death. Two days before her death, parents ring up GP expressing concern but say she is now ingesting again, the doctor prescribes build up drinks so that she can put back on the weight she lost (though theres no evidence that the parents weighed her so probably just said to the doctor that she's lost a bit of weight, rather than two stone).

Sometimes kids don't eat, so the psychologist was there to deal with that. But did she really know the severity of the problem? She was neither a doctor nor a nutritionist and could not be expected to know any better than to reassure the worried parents before their appointment the next week. Eventually perhaps she would have sorted out the childs phobia.

The hospital refused re-admission? Well heres a thought, there was nothing medically wrong with the child. This was a job for the psychologist, who as they knew they were due to see in a matter of days.

So who was responsible for keeping her healthy and well until the psychologists visit? The parents. All the health professionals above never saw her, so could not have known. As far as I'm concerned that is the parents fault, for not putting her in the car and driving her to the hospital/GP wherever. Any health professional who recieved a phone call from them saying that the child had lost weight (but don't know how much) and had only just starting eating could have checked and seen that she had an upcoming appointment with a psychologist, and told them to wait. From the sounds of it the parents only even bothered to pick up the phone in the few days preceding her death.