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If There Were A General Election On May 5th who would You Vote For?

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    (Original post by englishstudent)
    I want to vote Lib. Dem. but judging by the poll so far I am not sure if that's sensible. :s:
    I am frankly alarmed by how many people have voted conservative on this poll. I mean fair enough, its just a quick internet poll with a very small sample size.

    But most of us are students right? Or at least under 21. We are supposed to be the free-thinking liberal types who move society forward and all that good stuff. We don't have any money, no interests to protect... why are the conservatives winning the poll?
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    (Original post by Alewhey)
    I am frankly alarmed by how many people have voted conservative on this poll. I mean fair enough, its just a quick internet poll with a very small sample size.

    But most of us are students right? Or at least under 21. We are supposed to be the free-thinking liberal types who move society forward and all that good stuff. We don't have any money, no interests to protect... why are the conservatives winning the poll?
    because you are wrong in the assertion that "We are supposed to be the free-thinking liberal types"

    are you in the clouds?
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    (Original post by Tomorrow2Day)
    In what way is opposing war the same as opposing security and defense?
    Security and defense rest on a bottom line: military capability. "we can only hope, oppose future wars" - opposing all manner of military action inherently means opposition to security and defense capability.

    The two are entirely disanalogous.
    Thats not even a word.

    I don't want to see a campaign of endless wars with the middle east for numerous reasons - for one thing,
    Neither do I, but that doesnt mean I will oppose every recourse to military power.

    Britain's direct and blatant involvement in the killing of middle eastern innocents does not make me feel more secure.
    It makes me feel more secure knowing that British soldiers are contributing to a conflict that will help liberate 50 million people and in doing so, ensure the safety of our children.

    In international relations, the phrase "the best defense is a good offense" does not apply - we're seeking peace, not victory.
    Sometimes victory is needed to secure the peace.

    Opposing our closest ally? Yes because that ally is the United States and do not deserve the legitimacy our support grants them. Putting aside the wars, protectionism, corruption and religious philosophy, the sheer audacity to opt out of the Kyoto agreement because of fears it would harm the world's strongest economy disqualifies the US entirely as a suitable ally for a progressive country.
    I suggest you do some background reading on the US stance on Kyoto before engaging it in this conversation.

    America is good for our economy in the short term but that is its sole benefit - affiliation with it lowers us in the eyes of billions, brings our culture closer into alignment with theirs (something far from desirable) and above all makes us a nation we should not be proud to be a part of.
    Your anti-americanism is a personal choice, but as a basis for political decisions I find it slightly moronic.
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    (Original post by technik)
    because you are wrong in the assertion that "We are supposed to be the free-thinking liberal types"

    are you in the clouds?
    What? Students are well known for getting behind progressive social ideas (e.g. feminism). Not just that - there are some issues where I can't see how our generation could possibly sympathise with the conservative viewpoint. Example - conservatives want to bump cannabis back up to class B. No teenager seriously thinks cannabis is a threat, do they? All the little things just don't add up. e.g. We always hear stories about how underage sex is on the rise and so on - to me, that says that us young-uns are embracing ideas that are a million miles away from the conservative viewpoint.

    Or do I live in a totally different world from my peers :confused:
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    Wow. I always assumed disanalogous was a word just because it makes so much sense. Thanks on that one. What IS the word that denotes there is no analogy between two things? Or do we just have to say that? It seems in 989 instances (according to google) other people thought disanalogous made sense too. Interesting.

    What part exactly of the US stance on Kyoto have I missed that makes them, the one nation that opted out, in the right and every other nation in the wrong?

    A quick clarification on the phrase "oppose wars" - it was a little ambiguous: I meant oppose some wars, specifically, ones that are a bad idea. I'd have said oppose all war if that was what I meant, which I didn't, because that's a stupid idea.

    And why exactly is opposition to America a terrible basis for deciding whether American affiliation is a good idea? Would you rather I opposed Britain's special relationship with America because asthetically the words America and Britain look funny in a sentence or something? As far as I can see opposition to America for numerous very good reasons is about the best possible grounds for making the decision against supporting America. I wouldn't vote Liberal Democrat just because I don't like American policy alone, that's obvious. There are enough other reasons.

    It's interesting that thus far no one has even attempted to justify voting Conservative or Labour.
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    (Original post by Alewhey)

    Or do I live in a totally different world from my peers :confused:
    No, you don't. It's just Technik. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by technik)
    whats the poll got to do with how you vote?
    Because I wouldn't vote Lib. Dem. if I thought there were any chance that the Tories could win. Frankly I don't think that a protest vote against Labour is actually safe. So whilst I'd rather vote Lib. Dem. I'd vote Labour to avoid the Tories. Tactical voting.
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    (Original post by Alewhey)
    What? Students are well known for getting behind progressive social ideas (e.g. feminism). Not just that - there are some issues where I can't see how our generation could possibly sympathise with the conservative viewpoint. Example - conservatives want to bump cannabis back up to class B. No teenager seriously thinks cannabis is a threat, do they? All the little things just don't add up. e.g. We always hear stories about how underage sex is on the rise and so on - to me, that says that us young-uns are embracing ideas that are a million miles away from the conservative viewpoint.

    Or do I live in a totally different world from my peers :confused:

    Some of us like Cannabis being illegal... stops the bastards taxing us on it (a noble Tory ideal!) I think what appeals to young people about the Tories is the libertarian side to it: they see themselves as going out into the world to earn a good living and don't want to see it all disappear and be 'redistributed' to those less deserving.

    The Conservative Party isn't strictly conservative, it has embraced change when it was beneficial. Half the Tory MPs are probably on coke anyway...
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    Iv pointed out on many other threads why im going to vote Labour, but i cannot believe the number of votes the Tories have in this poll...why?????? I thought most people on here were educated and knew of their basic record when in opposition. Hopefully this poll isnt representative of the majority of voting population and that there are some rational thinking people out there..
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    They're all as bad as each other! Think will have to read manifestos a bit more carefully before deciding. At the moment I would vote Lib Dem I think. In my area it's either Lib Dem or Tory and I'm not impressed with our local Tory candidate whereas the Lib Dem guy is fairly reasonable if not a little thick.

    I would expect Labour to win again whatever, I don't really think the Tories will get in as nobody trusts them again yet. Howard is not the right leader, and Blair hasn't pissed off enough people yet not to be re-elected. I may however vote Tory just to stop us going into the Euro as this is probably the term when Labour would try and get us into it..
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    (Original post by Alewhey)
    I am frankly alarmed by how many people have voted conservative on this poll. I mean fair enough, its just a quick internet poll with a very small sample size.

    But most of us are students right? Or at least under 21. We are supposed to be the free-thinking liberal types who move society forward and all that good stuff. We don't have any money, no interests to protect... why are the conservatives winning the poll?
    cos theres loads of students who have a mental age of 40....many have become apathetic so the conservative types take over
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    (Original post by englishstudent)
    Because I wouldn't vote Lib. Dem. if I thought there were any chance that the Tories could win. Frankly I don't think that a protest vote against Labour is actually safe. So whilst I'd rather vote Lib. Dem. I'd vote Labour to avoid the Tories. Tactical voting.
    I dont agree...vote for the party you'd want to see in most, its far more sensible than tactical voting..hows liberal ever gonna be given a chance to show its credentials with that attitude? Its like saying i wont give a quid to charity cos it wont make any difference...but it does if you make the decision
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    I'll probably vote Labour just to stop the Tories getting in. It's a shame, but in my view definitely the lesser of two evils.
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    (Original post by Tomorrow2Day)
    In what way is opposing war the same as opposing security and defense? The two are entirely disanalogous. I don't want to see a campaign of endless wars with the middle east for numerous reasons - for one thing, Britain's direct and blatant involvement in the killing of middle eastern innocents does not make me feel more secure. In international relations, the phrase "the best defense is a good offense" does not apply - we're seeking peace, not victory.

    Opposing our closest ally? Yes because that ally is the United States and do not deserve the legitimacy our support grants them. Putting aside the wars, protectionism, corruption and religious philosophy, the sheer audacity to opt out of the Kyoto agreement because of fears it would harm the world's strongest economy disqualifies the US entirely as a suitable ally for a progressive country.
    America is good for our economy in the short term but that is its sole benefit - affiliation with it lowers us in the eyes of billions, brings our culture closer into alignment with theirs (something far from desirable) and above all makes us a nation we should not be proud to be a part of.

    And as for the Liberal Democrat ideological basis?

    From "It's About Freedom - Report of the Liberal Democracy Working Group"

    The "war on terror" is about the most absurd thing i've ever heard...as if you just wipe out terrorism like that... i think GWB and half the voters in the states think world affairs is like a cowboys and indians movie, a simple "good guys wipe out the bad guys" scenario...In iraq they have wiped out towns and killed civilians...yet they genuinely believed it would be like liberation in the second world war, and Iraqis would all be waving the stars and stripes....it is quite worrying that our goverment seems to blindly follow these morons
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    (Original post by Tomorrow2Day)
    Wow. I always assumed disanalogous was a word just because it makes so much sense. Thanks on that one. What IS the word that denotes there is no analogy between two things? Or do we just have to say that? It seems in 989 instances (according to google) other people thought disanalogous made sense too. Interesting.
    disparate?

    What part exactly of the US stance on Kyoto have I missed that makes them, the one nation that opted out, in the right and every other nation in the wrong?
    i) The United States has not pulled out of the Kyoto agreement
    ii) Australia have not ratified the agreement. Italy have put a timeframe on participation. China, India and Brazil all oppose a Kyoto II protocol that would see them obliged to meet the same reduction targets.
    iii) The fact that the quota targets were drastically reduced when it was realised this was more than talk.
    iv) The fact that the second largest polluter was not subject to similar target restrictions.
    v) The US believes that its industry can do a better job of reducing emissions by staying out of Kyoto. Italy, Australia and parts of Canada would agree.

    A quick clarification on the phrase "oppose wars" - it was a little ambiguous: I meant oppose some wars, specifically, ones that are a bad idea. I'd have said oppose all war if that was what I meant, which I didn't, because that's a stupid idea.
    ok.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    The "war on terror" is about the most absurd thing i've ever heard...as if you just wipe out terrorism like that... i think GWB and half the voters in the states think world affairs is like a cowboys and indians movie, a simple "good guys wipe out the bad guys" scenario...In iraq they have wiped out towns and killed civilians...yet they genuinely believed it would be like liberation in the second world war, and Iraqis would all be waving the stars and stripes....it is quite worrying that our goverment seems to blindly follow these morons
    i) this post is misplaced on this thread
    ii) it is quite worrying that you refer to either americans, or those that believe that good has come from this military action, as "morons". I would have thought that word would better suited to describe those who address the issue with crass stereotypes.
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    Why is there no option on the poll for abstention?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i) The United States has not pulled out of the Kyoto agreement
    It pulled out before it was completed, although they did technically pull out as they had signed at one point. (Doesn't really matter though, they are not in so how they got there doesn't make any difference)
    ii) Australia have not ratified the agreement. Italy have put a timeframe on participation. China, India and Brazil all oppose a Kyoto II protocol that would see them obliged to meet the same reduction targets.
    iii) The fact that the quota targets were drastically reduced when it was realised this was more than talk.
    iv) The fact that the second largest polluter was not subject to similar target restrictions.
    v) The US believes that its industry can do a better job of reducing emissions by staying out of Kyoto. Italy, Australia and parts of Canada would agree.
    Unfortunately you are mostly right 2-4; 5- I remember the discssion well When is their new plan coming out btw?
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    (Original post by Alewhey)
    What? Students are well known for getting behind progressive social ideas (e.g. feminism). Not just that - there are some issues where I can't see how our generation could possibly sympathise with the conservative viewpoint. Example - conservatives want to bump cannabis back up to class B. No teenager seriously thinks cannabis is a threat, do they? All the little things just don't add up. e.g. We always hear stories about how underage sex is on the rise and so on - to me, that says that us young-uns are embracing ideas that are a million miles away from the conservative viewpoint.

    Or do I live in a totally different world from my peers :confused:
    you're just saying a) how people should be (in your opinion). b) making assumptions of how people are (in your opinion)

    in my experience i know few students who are interested in feminism or liberalism or softening cannabis laws. infact many of the students i know have views on a wide range of issues that would be classed as "conservative". to suggest they're all liberal loving pot heads is silly-speak
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i) this post is misplaced on this thread
    ii) it is quite worrying that you refer to either americans, or those that believe that good has come from this military action, as "morons". I would have thought that word would better suited to describe those who address the issue with crass stereotypes.
    I was actually reffering to those who believe in the "war on terror" as a permanent solution, and neglect the fact that aggressive action which causes civilian deaths creates more terrorists
Updated: April 3, 2005
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