In regard to everyone's fascination with Ms Trimble , especially after the Final, I want to ask why on earth would people want to study classics ??
The subject is soo detached from the modern day , quite literally . I mean studying a combination of Greek Tragedies , Mythology , Latin etc. cannot be so useful in the job market today can it ?
In my opinion a Classics degree, is just a label for elitism and a haughty badge of recognition saying " I was privately educated ".
what does a classics degree have to do with being privately educated?
Because the majority of those who study it, particularly those at Oxford, Cambridge, Durham etc. are privately educated. Often overwhelmingly so. It's traditionally been a public school subject and those from state educated backgrounds, who had no real opportunity to study Greek or Latin or study of ancient literature, are put off.
Of course there are exceptions and it's not the case that every classics students is privately educated.
Anyway, love of the subject. It's a fascinating subject so why not? Some enjoy it so chose to study it at degree level. What does it matter to you (and it does offer transferable skills, as any degree does). It's still very relevant, even if the course content arguably isn't.
You do it because you like the subject like any other degree. Some people really love and enjoy classics, like some people love maths or love languages.
Why do history if you don't want to be a historian? Why do theology if you don't want to be a vicar? Why do a language if you don't want to be a translator? Do you think all the people who do arts subjects just end up jobless? No, their degrees show that they are skilled and academically capable.
Because the majority of those who study it, particularly those at Oxford, Cambridge, Durham etc. are privately educated. Often overwhelmingly so. It's traditionally been a public school subject and those from state educated backgrounds, who had no real opportunity to study Greek or Latin or study of ancient literature, are put off.
Of course there are exceptions and it's not the case that every classics students is privately educated.
fair enough.
I did classics A level in a non private sixth form college, so when I started my classics degree it had nothing to do with having been privately educated (because I never did classics in a private school) *shrugs*
I do know that the subject has political issues attached though, i.e. access to it is to large extents restricted to those from the most traditional, usually fee-paying, schools. However, that's not to say that there need be a restriction, if it's something that you're interested in. I never studied classics at school, but began it simply out of interest at university, and began studying Latin and Ancient Greek intensively there. You can do this at most universities, including Oxbridge, that offer the subject (and all that offer it, if you choose not to do the languages so intensively and study 'Classical Studies'). I do think that there should be wider access to it in schools, because knowledge of Latin, for example, has been proven to make learning other languages much easier; politics, even if it's ancient, is always relevant to the modern day; argumentation skills that may be gained are of vital importance to many careers; and the great breadth of what can be studied is a great intellectual challenge, I think.
Of course, I would never look down on anyone for not understanding Latin or such things though, in the same way that I would hope not to be looked down on for knowing nothing about football.
I think tabloids also propogate the idea -- and so reversing opportunity for work on social inclusion -- of classics as a haugty upper-middle-class subject, which indeed it once was, with their portrayal of Boris Johnson, who isn't perhaps the best ambassador in terms of social inclusion, and such things. But the subject is not inherently elitist (it's merely history, literature, languages etc. -- all of which working-class people study at school and at university in great numbers): it is our culture that perceives it as being so, and has, at school level, for whatever reasons arguably made it so.
However, at Manchester, where I am, there is a very encouraging mix of social classes. I'm aware that this may not be especially typical, but there's no reason why it couldn't be.
In regard to everyone's fascination with Ms Trimble , especially after the Final, I want to ask why on earth would people want to study classics ??
The subject is soo detached from the modern day , quite literally . I mean studying a combination of Greek Tragedies , Mythology , Latin etc. cannot be so useful in the job market today can it ?
In my opinion a Classics degree, is just a label for elitism and a haughty badge of recognition saying " I was privately educated ".
Your comments suggest only a vague understanding of what Classics entails and yet you seem to consider yourself qualified to make some relatively huge assumptions about the value of the subject and the motives of those studying it.
Apart from being a source of great interest to those who read Classics, the breadth of study involved provides, perhaps more than any other degree, a wealth of transferable skills which are considered valuable by employers. The study of languages, particularly Latin and Greek which contribute so greatly to the etymologies of many Proto-Indo-European languages, is seen as an indicator of logic and aptitude to learn a number of other modern languages. The exact nature of archaeological work requires incredible discipline and a thorough and methodical approach, as in any science. These are, again, qualities which are often highly regarded by employers. Knowledge of literature and philosophy not only promotes analytical but also creative thinking. What’s more, an understanding of classical literature and mythology is perhaps the most valuable tool in coming to understand the inestimable legacy that exists still in many cultural aspects of our modern Europe. Consider the Romantics, consider Shakespeare, consider Dr Johnson, Racine, Rousseau, Pope, Dryden, Dante, Goethe, Marx, Tolkien, Cocteau, Heaney, Britten, Purcell, Rameau even J. K. Rowling! Quite honestly, that is the merest of drops in the ocean.
I’ve mentioned here only the main branches of a subject whose scope and influence is such that it has been studied in some form almost from the moment of the fall of the Roman Empire, and continues still today to present relevant and interesting topics for academic discussion.
In short, you are woefully misinformed and should probably refrain from passing comment on something you evidently know little about.
Your comments suggest only a vague understanding of what Classics entails and yet you seem to consider yourself qualified to make some relatively huge assumptions about the value of the subject and the motives of those studying it.
Apart from being a source of great interest to those who read Classics, the breadth of study involved provides, perhaps more than any other degree, a wealth of transferable skills which are considered valuable by employers. The study of languages, particularly Latin and Greek which contribute so greatly to the etymologies of many Proto-Indo-European languages, is seen as an indicator of logic and aptitude to learn a number of other modern languages. The exact nature of archaeological work requires incredible discipline and a thorough and methodical approach, as in any science. These are, again, qualities which are often highly regarded by employers. Knowledge of literature and philosophy not only promotes analytical but also creative thinking. What’s more, an understanding of classical literature and mythology is perhaps the most valuable tool in coming to understand the inestimable legacy that exists still in many cultural aspects of our modern Europe. Consider the Romantics, consider Shakespeare, consider Dr Johnson, Racine, Rousseau, Pope, Dryden, Dante, Goethe, Marx, Tolkien, Cocteau, Heaney, Britten, Purcell, Rameau even J. K. Rowling! Quite honestly, that is the merest of drops in the ocean.
I’ve mentioned here only the main branches of a subject whose scope and influence is such that it has been studied in some form almost from the moment of the fall of the Roman Empire, and continues still today to present relevant and interesting topics for academic discussion.
In short, you are woefully misinformed and should probably refrain from passing comment on something you evidently know little about.
Thank you for your little dissertation but I was only expressing my general opinion . However , I do not need someone who is clearly in favour of studying Classics to tell me I am "woefully misinformed" and that I "should probably refrain from passing comment " on something I know little about.
You are totally ignorant of the amount of Classics knowledge I have ( Studied during high school and leisurely at home , I just thought the degree itself wasn't the best use of time)and you are only judging me by this post so I must say that you are ironically misinformed yourself.
Oh , and I am sorry if I have offended you as you are doing it next year at uni....talk about patronising....
Thank you for your little dissertation but I was only expressing my general opinion . However , I do not need someone who is clearly in favour of studying Classics to tell me I am "woefully misinformed" and that I "should probably refrain from passing comment " on something I know little about.
You are totally ignorant of the amount of Classics knowledge I have ( Studied during high school and leisurely at home , I just thought the degree itself wasn't the best use of time)and you are only judging me by this post so I must say that you are ironically misinformed yourself.
Oh , and I am sorry if I have offended you as you are doing it next year at uni....talk about patronising....
My comments were on your lack of understanding of Classics, so the amount you claim to know is irrelevant. Although the idea that someone who considers himself even slightly knowledgeable in the field of Classics can have such a poor understanding of the subject and its students is, frankly, even more distressing.
Thank you for your little dissertation but I was only expressing my general opinion . However , I do not need someone who is clearly in favour of studying Classics to tell me I am "woefully misinformed" and that I "should probably refrain from passing comment " on something I know little about.
You are totally ignorant of the amount of Classics knowledge I have ( Studied during high school and leisurely at home , I just thought the degree itself wasn't the best use of time)and you are only judging me by this post so I must say that you are ironically misinformed yourself.
Oh , and I am sorry if I have offended you as you are doing it next year at uni....talk about patronising....
If you don't want to hear a classicist's opinion, the Classics forum might not be the best place to post your anti-Classics nonsense
I really don't see how Classics is detached from the modern world. The West's cultural foundations lie in the classical Mediterranean; our philosophy, our politics, and our culture (among other things). Classics gives you a very strong grounding in the concepts and ideas, even if the relevant knowledge may be thousands of years old.
Lol I didn't mean for this to be in the Classics forum . Mods , why did u move my post to the Classics section ??? I put this in the general discussion section it was meant to be a GENERAL DISCUSSION and not a nasty attack on people who do Classics. This was just my opinion and if I am unfairly demonised for it then God help me
Although the idea that someone who considers himself even slightly knowledgeable in the field of Classics can have such a poor understanding of the subject and its students is, frankly, even more distressing.
This.
Also:
You are not being "unfairly demonised" for anything. Read your original post OP, the tone is nothing less than insulting. But of course as a "haughty and elitist" Classics student, I would think that.
So if you didn't want it to be perceived as a nasty attack, perhaps you should not have written it that way, and if you are going to "express your opinion" about Classics on a forum full of Classics students, you should be prepared for them to express their opinions back.
University course discussion for Classics.
Useful Resources:
Classics?!?
Re: Classics?!?
Because I'm so detached from the modern day!
