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USA or Europe?

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Bismarck

Is this were you start another rant about some other non-existent military being stronger than the American one? Maybe Zimbabwe's?

oh look, it's the american strong!1one11! fanboy.

Reply 21

Student2806

montevideo

How about we join the United States as the official 51st state? After all, we share a common language.

Reply 22

montevideo

Bateman

oh look, it's the american strong!1one11! fanboy.

Why don't you attempt to clarify/justify your initial claim that the European Union is 'stronger' than the United States rather than making silly comments.

Student2806

Why?

Reply 23

iwilson03

How about we join the United States as the official 51st state? After all, we share a common language.

*Shock, horror* and cement our image as being their bitch? Destroy our power over our own economy, political system, education, welfare state, military.

Reply 24

LooieENG

iwilson03

Fair enough. Let no-one smother your vision!!

Just hope I never become a PM :wink:

montevideo

Europe is far too divided. Full integration - whatever you mean by that - is simply not feasible.

I mean Europe becomes like America, and we just become like a state (although we still control everyone else).

montevideo

How about we join the United States as the official 51st state? After all, we share a common language.

We share a language with Australia too, but should we join them? No, because Australia suck at war and what not (no offense to any Australians)

I shouldn't really argue about politics though cause I say stuff I shouldn't. I can guarantee if I was the leader of a country WW3 would break out the next day

Reply 25

Student2806

montevideo

Why?

Because we're British...not American.
You really want to give up our financial independence to a bunch of people you've never seen or heard of, and who have probably never been here, 3,500 miles away?

Reply 26

montevideo

iwilson03

*Shock, horror* and cement our image as being their bitch? Destroy our power over our own economy, political system, education, welfare state, military.

Our political system is a joke - we have no constitutionally protected rights in the United Kingdom and a lack of a separation of powers. If we were to relinquish our sovereignty and join the United States we would benefit from the US Constitution. Also, our military is equally mediocre - at least if we were a part of the US, they would be under an actual obligation to protect us with their military prowess.

ps. we wouldn't be their bitch if we became the 51st state - we'd be a part of them.

Reply 27

esab noom izan

join with the indians and chinese - the next generation of superpowers - as american power and influence slowly crumble with each passing day?

Reply 28

Joluk

I don't think it will matter in the long run, Europe i suppose, as we are geographically closer to them.

Reply 29

montevideo

Student2806

Geography would be something to take into consideration, but Hawaii and Alaska are in a similar position.

Reply 30

iwilson03

Our political system is the basis for countless other countries political systems, there is also the monarchy. Plus we have our legal system to be proud of. Do you have no partriotism?
Our military is not mediocre at all - smaller but not bad.
And lets be honest we would be their bitch - 3500 miles away and controlled by them, being forced to adopt their way of life and their President. We would be their bitch there is no question, we would be the 'funny little people in that funny little island that we own next to Europe' - at least atm we can make our own decisions.

Reply 31

iwilson03

join with the indians and chinese - the next generation of superpowers - as american power and influence slowly crumble with each passing day?

But how, I guess with India we have the commonwealth link but China is completely foreign in the way it works and we have no real links with them.

Reply 32

burninginme

I don't think Obama is quite as keen on the "special relationship" as Bush was with Britian. Obama's welcoming of Brown was hardly grand nor had much effort been put in, I mean, Obama's gift to Brown was a box of DVDs, I'm suprised he didn't try and give him a wind-up TV and DVD player to watch them on - does Obama know that the little old UK actually has electricy now?

British people scum up to Obama and act like the Americans reclaimed their soul when they elected Obama, but so far from what I can see all of what Obama has done has been supeficial and in my mind he's yet to step up to the plate. I'm starting to get the impression that quite a few Americans are disappointed in who they elected. I think the problem is the media hyped him up to something he could never live up to.

Since Obama's inauguration, his approval rating has been in quite a steady decline. His approval rating started at about 85-90% after inaugaration but it's now down to a more modest 60%, while most Americans approve, he certainly isn't viewed as a super-hero, his approval rating is on par with other US presidents.

Reply 33

esab noom izan

iwilson03

But how, I guess with India we have the commonwealth link but China is completely foreign in the way it works and we have no real links with them.

i was kidding, but in terms of economic, political and cultural ties its possible, i didnt mean join them as in us becoming a satellite state, just backing them in their policies. After all, american economic analysts predict the Chinese GDP will surpass the US in 2016 i believe

Reply 34

montevideo

iwilson03

Do you have no partriotism?

I'm not ashamed of being British. I just support what I think would be the best option for this country in the long-term. A fully integrated Europe or an isolationist Britain is simply not feasible.

iwilson03

Our military is not mediocre at all - smaller but not bad.

In a world where superpowers like India, the United States, China (and to a much lesser extent Russia), we really don't compare.

iwilson03

And lets be honest we would be their bitch - 3500 miles away and controlled by them, being forced to adopt their way of life and their President. We would be their bitch there is no question, we would be the 'funny little people in that funny little island that we own next to Europe'

We wouldn't be forced to 'adopt their way of life'. Just look at the US - look at the cultural differences between states like Pennsylvania and Florida, or Massachusetts and California, or Texas and Hawaii. The United States has the ability to embrace the United Kingdom and accomodate its cultural differences. Plus, it wouldn't be 'their Preisdent' - it would be our President. We'd have the right to vote as well - plus, with a population of 61 million we would have the electoral college votes of New York, Florida and Texas combined. In other words, we would have a huge impact on Capitol Hill.

Plus, as a sepate state we would have a large say on an array of matters.

iwison03

at least atm we can make our own decisions.

If you say so.

Reply 35

LooieENG

Bismarck

Um, what? Australia certainly has a better record fighting wars than say...Italy. It also has a better military than Italy's right now...

When did Australia last make a huge contribution to a war?

But anyway, that wasn't my point. Which is better, to ally with Australia only, or the whole of Europe?

Actually, no. I can't remember what my point was :s-smilie:

Reply 36

iwilson03

Fair enough, I think at the moment Gordon Brown is actually attempting to court China as he has visited at least once and I think got on with them and also the labour government announced that they recognised China's right to power over Tibet.

Reply 37

iwilson03

I'm not ashamed of being British. I just support what I think would be the best option for this country in the long-term. A fully integrated Europe or an isolationist Britain is simply not feasible.

No but what is possible is an independent Britain which has close ties with either the EU or the USA (which is what this thread is asking, which 'bloc' do we associate ourselves with).

In a world where superpowers like India, the United States, China (and to a much lesser extent Russia), we really don't compare.

I disagree - we have a well trained army and one that is technologically advanced enough to certainly make any major power hesitate to cross us - this combined with our soft power across the world which means we are likely to be supported by many commonwealth countries and the US (if they aren't the ones attacking us, but lets be honest they won't).

These states still have a similar way of life, they still have the same education system etc. We may have voting power but keeping independence would mean we have complete control over what we do. I mean say the US really pissed off Russia, who would they strike first? Britain would always be in the firing line.
Anyway I don't want to make a huge impact on Capitol Hill - British people should make an impact on Westminster.

If you say so.

You can't just make a statement like that, you can't deny we have our own government and our own legal system etc.

Reply 38

Bagration

LooieENG

When did Australia last make a huge contribution to a war?

When was the last time Italy made a huge contribution to defending democracy?

Let me see: ANZAC troops fought in Gallipoli, on the trenches of Europe, they wrestled the South Pacific from Imperial Germany, in WWII they were critical in North Africa and in the Pacific and in Burma. Australia was a key pillar in holding back the Japanese while America rebuilt its military.

Australian troops liberated my home country from the Japanese.

They also fought in Korea and in Vietnam against Communism.

Don't undermine the efforts Australia gave to fighting alongside Britain you uneducated ignorant retard.

Reply 39

esab noom izan

iwilson03

if that part about china and tibet is true thats huge, im a supporter of Tibetan independence but its always been british policy to recognize governments "in power" :frown: