Unsuccessful OASC advice

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burf I don't want to you to think that I am trying to pick on you, however, as you can well see from your comments, you are not really taking on board suggestions. You say "I fully understand your argument" and then "I hope I've made myself clear" is not the attitude they are looking for. If you have already made up your mind then there is no need for a discussion is it?

What ProStacker is suggesting is a realistic one. People who have Officer qualities may not be as happy when there in a less responsibile position. And certainly, if you are going to just stick to your decision then you won't be able to follow instructions from other.

This is just my opinion on how I see things. May be I am wrong.

Reply 21

burf87

I hear what you're saying newboyintown, but I am not going to change my mind on the strength of what someone has suggested on an internet forum. I am willing to accept the advice as ideas and alternatives, however, only I know what I want and what motivates me and I am not going to come to a decision so soon after being unsuccessful at OASC, neither am I going to come to a decision based on a discussion on TSR. I am, however, going to come to a decision once I have considered all my options and discussed them with the staff at the AFCO.

I wish you the very best of luck for your time at OASC, it is a tough few days but they are enjoyable.

All the best

Reply 22

hootandroar

Back to the original question and as to doing a bit of do/review/apply any actions that you may take between attempts should be based on sound and well reasoned desire to improve your abilities. If it is perceived that a individual has merely done something to tick the box then they will not be successful. Performing as part of an interdependent team is integral to all ranks within any service and these are skills that can be developed through listening skills and participation in team based activities. Within the services the ability to be a follower as well as the leader can be contradictory but is a reality in a structured chain of command. The ability to not only understand this on the intellectual level but actually do this can radically improve how you perform within team based tasks.
Work within the Samaritans can give an excellent opportunity to do listening skills courses and the TA will allow an individual the chance to demonstrate the ability to take orders and be a good supporter. Hope this helps

Reply 23

eyes on

If the boarding officers told you to come back in a year, joining the TA in the meantime isn't such a bad option. The fact that they see potential in you, means you already have a greater chance next year. It would be great for you to go there next year and (in a non literal sense) say 'I did exactly what you advised to do, and im determined to get a commission with the RAF, so I am back to kick ass this time :smile:

'

You are in a difficult situation and im sure you will make the right choice. If you want a Commission, you will get it either route eventually - it's just whether or not you kick yourself for taking the long route.

Reply 24

BlackHawk

In your position, I would go to an AFCO debrief, join the TA or become an adult instructor in the ATC, join a team sport, arrange some adventure training for the summer and look at getting a management career. By the time you've arranged all of that, a year will fly by. When you go back to OASC, put down Officer and NCA if you are interested in both.

They obviously saw something in you, and told you to work on yourself and come back in a year to try again. If they really saw no Officer potential in you, they would have told you never to come back again.

There is no rush to make any sort of decision now, so try not to rush into joining the ranks because you want your career here and now. A year is no time at all. For varying life reasons I've been waiting seven years for mine to start.

Reply 25

boo121

burf87

Hi, I'm in the same position as you. I applied for EngO and Logistics Officer. I've been to OASC this week, blitzed the aptitude and passed for all branches (somewhat pointlessly as neither of the branches I applied for were aptitude assessed). During the exercise phase I did OK on the majority of the exercises. I.e not really good and not really bad. Consequently I was binned at this stage. The review officer said I was too polite and didn't assert myself enough in the group exercises. He also suggested the TA and apply again in a year. However, a year seems a long time to wait so I'm considering RAF Police, then perhaps apply for a commission at some point in the future when I have some military experience under my belt.

Everyone I've spoken to in the RAF (Commissioned or not) say they don't regret a minute of it and they wouldn't change anything about it. I guess it is RAF life that appeals to me, as well as an interesting career.

Kind regards

ahhh, what was your name? i was on the same course dates as you. Delta 3 Syndicate, Andy. The one who finished last in the aptitude tests :wink:

I could give you some better feedback burf if i know who you are!

As for the review i was told i had the ability and potential to be a pilot, but had a fundimental flaw in not being able to get the team onboard. I did not listen to their ideas, therefore they did not reciprocate. Isolating me a bit. This is something i can work on (and will) and help improve. If i don't get in in a years time, ill ask the review board to tell me whether I'll ever be an officer for as long as i've got a hole in my ass. If the answer is, No, then i'll go NCA. But my ambition is to be an officer, so im not interested in making compromises at this stage.

Cheers for the advice all

Reply 26

burf87

I don't think so, I started on tuesday, we only had echo, foxtrot and golf syndicates, I was Golf 2

Reply 27

dayle_124

burf87, are u mr incredible?

Reply 28

Robinf20

Back to the original question, I shall give you my story:

I went to OASC just before the end of university but failed. They recommended that I reapply in a year and in the meantime join the TA / RAuxAF. So, I finished university, transferred TA units (from an University Officer Training Corps to my local Infantry Battalion) and went back to my old ATC squadron to help out.

As I knew that I was going to reapply to the RAF, I did not bother trying to get on a graduate placement scheme or a long term job as I was hoping to pack it in after a year if I was successful. Therefore i chose to do temping work. I experienced several public and private sector organisations thus giving me a good insight into the civilian world of work (and further cemented my desire to join the Forces!). This approach also gave me greater flexibility when i found out that I passed OASC - I was able to get onto an earlier IOT course as I only had to give a week's notice for the job that I was doing at that time.

All in all that year of waiting flew by as I was so busy working a full working week, helping out with the ATC 2 evenings a week, and a weekend a month then TA drill nights once a week and an exercise once a month. After all that I was chomping at the bit to get back to OASC!!

Furthermore, having already been to OASC, I was less nervous about it as I knew what to expect (even as the format had changed slightly) so I went back a lot more confident.

I hope that provides some insight to my approach to my failure. As has been said, a year is nothing if you are applying for a permanent commission!

Reply 29

boo121

Cheers Robin. I will look into the TA then. The fact that they've given me a list of things to improve on, makes it easy. and hopefully my eyesight will still be 20/20 by then. In the navy - applying for officer, they do not give you a report outlining your strengths and weaknesses.

The thing which impressed me, was the boarding officers ability to sus this stuff out in a space of 15 minutes.

Reply 30

ebulus

ProStacker

If you want to be an Officer, do not think that coming in through the ranks is a good idea..

Why? Surely getting the experience of being in the Air Force can't do anything but boost and further an application, especially as NCA - by gaining leadership experience as well as those skills such as airmanship that come along with being an aviator?? Getting a foot in the door of the the aircrew world can't do any harm, apart from delaying the re-application process from one year to about five. the question has to be asked - be an officer or be an aviator??

Reply 31

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

ebulus

Because it shortens your career as an officer by 5 years, which makes the standard career profile difficult to impossible to achieve. In actual fact, the average is more like 9 years to get a commission as NCA in my experience.

Because commissioning from the ranks especially for NCA closes for years on end, so there is a chance that no matter how good you are there is no chance of getting commissioned.

Because if you are prepared to spend 5 years 'preparing' for something that most people can do straight out of uni, perhaps you aren't suited to the role.

Being NCA doesn't boost your application, the RAF recruit for what they want, and they want you in the NCA role. You are then bucking the system by filling an officer slot but creating an experienced NCA gap. Far easier for the RAF to just recruit the people they want in the job they want from the outset.

Commissioning from the ranks is for people who genuinely change and grow into their professional careers and find they have the potential to do things they had not realisd at 18-20 when they joined up. It is not for people that don't have the bottle to rely on themselves and think joining the ranks is a warm up act to commissioning. There are plenty of success stories where people have been given the 'year to mature' first time around at OASC, come back and have succesful, full commissioned careers.

Reply 32

ebulus

threeportdrift

In actual fact, the average is more like 9 years to get a commission as NCA in my experience.

Because commissioning from the ranks especially for NCA closes for years on end, so there is a chance that no matter how good you are there is no chance of getting commissioned.

Because if you are prepared to spend 5 years 'preparing' for something that most people can do straight out of uni, perhaps you aren't suited to the role.

Being NCA doesn't boost your application, the RAF recruit for what they want, and they want you in the NCA role. You are then bucking the system by filling an officer slot but creating an experienced NCA gap. Far easier for the RAF to just recruit the people they want in the job they want from the outset.

Commissioning from the ranks is for people who genuinely change and grow into their professional careers and find they have the potential to do things they had not realisd at 18-20 when they joined up. It is not for people that don't have the bottle to rely on themselves and think joining the ranks is a warm up act to commissioning. There are plenty of success stories where people have been given the 'year to mature' first time around at OASC, come back and have succesful, full commissioned careers.

I have to disagree on this one.

The actual fact is that for NCA a commission can be applied for once a return of service has been met - roughly 4 - 5 years after joining.

Regarding commissioning for NCA I believe you are referring to an in branch commission - yes these do close for years but this bears no relevance to applying for pilot / WSO and have always been few and far between.

I very much doubt that someone would spend 5 years preparing, and the fact of being in the Air Force provides the relevant preparation - adventure training, leadership, teamwork, etc, etc. Plus, are you saying that most people can come out of uni and be a pilot / WSO in the RAF? I think not, also as they've spent 3 years getting into the debt at uni, the guy who joined as NCA has been gaining skills required of an RAF officer.

Being NCA will definately boost an application, especially as your annual report will be taken into account. OASC will see you as someone who is proven, someone that they know has been through the training system and is able to succeed, as well as having the relevant skills of teamwork, airmanship, etc. And as you are referring to someone filling an officer slot but creating an NCA gap that is what is known as 'career progression'. If the Air Force did not want commissioning from the ranks then it wouldn't allow it but that is not the case.

I don't think that it's anything to do with not having the bottle to rely on oneself, being NCA is not the easy way out after being knocked back for a commission - just look at the failure rates for NCA. At the end of the day it's the decision for the individual but if it was me knocked back for a commission but offered NCA I would take it.

Reply 33

ProStacker

ebulus - you've not convinced me. I've worked with all of those different ranks/roles and seen airmen and NCO aircrew go through the commissioning system - and helped a few of them on their way. 'Getting experience of the RAF' isn't a valid arguement and makes no difference (otherwise we'd all need to do it). Being NCA won't boost an application - being 5 years older and having worked will, but not NCA. Your annual report isn't taken into account - other than the recommendation for commissioning (if present) is noted. I saw this only last month for one of my guys. I guess you are NCA? You seem to be very pro but haven't put NCA into context with the rest of the RAF or the role of the Commissioned Officer. If you are talking about NCA to Pilot/WSO, then you are talking to a real minority - most appear to go for Ground Branches when commissioning and they are totally different roles for officers.
I didn't say what I did lightly - I've spent a few years forming that view and it is backed up by NCA I know and have worked with, whether as NCA of Officers.

Reply 34

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

And I spent 17 years as a Hercules navigator, 10 of which were on a Squadron working day to day with NCA. I think I've gained a reasonably accurate insight into the pros and cons of their career options and how successful they are at getting a commission, regardless of their individual potential and aspirations.

Reply 35

Theo1977

There is something like a 75% success rate for candidates who follow the advice to come back to OASC in twelve months time for a second try. (For those who like sources, this was the figure given by the President of one of the Boards at OASC.)

Ebulus - would you suggest the figure of 75% success rate is comparable for NCA going for a commission? For the argument that going NCA first will boost your chances, you need a success rate of more than 3 in 4 successfully achieveing a commission in order to make this a better option. I would be interested to know what the actual figures are?

Reply 36

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

I don't know what proportion of the NCA cadre were on the C130 fleet, maybe 20%. In my time there I saw 2 ALMs get a commission as pilots, now operating on the Herc fleet. I can only remember two more that got a branch commission - Hannibal may have access to more info here. Then I can recall three that got commissioned into ground branches in order to be able to challenge themselves in a commissioned role. So seven in seven years, out of several hundred on the Stn - pretty dismal odds I'd say because they were far from the only people wanting to get a commission.

If you've got commissioning potential, use up all your options for a commission first. Only if you haven't currently got commissioning potential should you consider other entry points. Whilst not impossible, it simply is a very much harder and longer route to try and get a commission from the ranks.

Reply 37

ebulus

I agree, applying for a commission first is probably the best option if pilot / WSO is really what you want to do. I'm not too sure about the 75% figure, possibly for all commissioned roles but I doubt this is accurate for pilot / WSO.

In my recent experience I know of 5 NCA who have applied for commission - 4 successful (2 pilots and 2 WSOs) and 1 unsuccessful on medical grounds. The RAF is looking for 3 years amortization of training after an OCU until you are allowed to apply for a commission.

Reply 38

boo121

We had a guy at OASC, who was also applying for a commissioned role as an administator who worked his way up the ranks. He had been Non-commissioned for 6 years. Was head and heals above everyone else there, understandably.
You can gain management and leadership skills, in 12 months, without necessarily going through NCA. They are looking to bring on around 165 pilots this year, and a similar number next, so numbers should be on my side next year.

Reply 39

ebulus

boo121

You can gain management and leadership skills, in 12 months, without necessarily going through NCA.

I definitely agree and would not promote NCA as a means to an end of becoming a pilot, if pilot is what you want then stick to your guns, go away and get the required skills, re-apply and see what happens. It kind of looks like you've made up your mind anyway! Good luck