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Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 03:02 #1 
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Who still has doubts regarding Liverpool fans actions during Hillsborough.

Hillsborough - The Ongoing Fight

It is fast approaching the 20th anniversary of the disaster, 20 long years since 96 human beings were led to their deaths by gross mismanagement. I refer to them as human beings as that is what they were; not football fans. 96 fans did lose their lives that day, and they did so because the people responsible for ensuring their safety neglected their duties and treated them as sub-human scum. Football fans were not treated as human beings, they were treated as animals.

April 15th will forever be a date associated with 96 lost lives. I can't see or hear that date without the word "Hillsborough" jumping to the forefront of my mind. My wife was born on the 15th April, and I have to "celebrate" her birthday every year on that date; returning from the Memorial Service a saddened man, and have to try and pretend to be happy and enjoy myself. I just can't do it.

My aunty gave birth to her first child on that very day. April 15th 1989, she gave birth to her first child as many other parents were losing theirs. When April 15th is brought up anywhere, my wife's birthday or my cousin do not even register, my thoughts immediately race to Hillsborough. It is a part of who we are as Liverpool fans; it's engrained in our very being.

20 years on, and Anne Williams is still fighting for justice. Anne lost her son Kevin at Hillsborough, yet nobody has ever been held to account for his death, as well as the 95 others we lost that day; but Kevin is different.

The enquiry that followed the disaster ruled that all those that perished had done so before 3.15pm. That was the cut off point, and no evidence was heard after that point. This is vital in the case of Kevin Williams, as there are witness reports and medical reports stating he was alive at 4pm. Anne Williams is currently taking her case to the European Courts under the "right to life".

Anne Williams v The United Kingdom.

The cover up that followed the disaster prevented Anne from finding out exactly what happened to Kevin. His case was never heard as he died after the 3.15pm cut off. The jury returned a verdict of "accidental death", and is a verdict that has been challenged ever since. Families lost loved ones and witnessed arguably the biggest policing cover up of all time. Is it any wonder they continue to fight to this day when they were told their children died by accident, despite overwhelming evidence to state otherwise?

What really gets to me, is that 20 years later, a large percentage of this country still don't understand what actually happened at Hillsborough. They have been taken in by lies and taken them as gospel. Lies that were proven to be lies by Lord Justice Taylor himself during his enquiry into the disaster.

The Sun printed a headline on the 19th April 1989, stating "The Truth".

There followed a series of sub headings claiming that Liverpool fans urinated and picked the pockets of the dead. Claims that Liverpool fans beat up policemen giving the kiss of life to others, and the lies went on. Claims that ticketless fans charged the gates open and crushed their own fans; and as we all know, mud sticks!

The Sun newspaper has been boycotted by Liverpool fans ever since.

A frightening number of our populus believe those lies. They hold the belief that the words printed that day are the truth, as the headline claimed. The findings within a court of law, and the Taylor Enquiry that followed claimed otherwise. Yet still, the mud is there. It won't go away. The amount of times I've had to pull people and explain to them exactly what happened that day is frightening, yet it is something I will continue to do until the day that I die.

Lord Justice Taylor praised the Liverpool fans for their behaviour and reaction on the day, and clearly stated that blame for the disaster lay at the feet of the men in control of the ground that day. A football ground that had no safety certificate, as it had expired ten years previously. A man with no experience in managing football crowds given that role for an FA Cup semi final. Superintendent David Duckenfield was that man.

Duckenfield is the man that ordered Gate C to be opened and allow the fans outside to enter the ground. He is the man that then claimed the fans pushed the gate down, only to retract that statement when it was proven to be a lie. He is the man that failed to have check points erected away from the turnstiles as was the case the year before in another semi final. He is the man that failed to block off access to the central pens when opening Gate C, sending hundreds of fans down that tunnel and squeezing the life out of those at the front.

He is the man that refused ambulances access to the pitch to help those dying. He is the man that ordered his officers to stand in line across the pitch to stop rival fans attacking each other, when it was glaringly obvious that people were dying, needed help, and fighting was the last thing on their minds.

He is the man that retired through ill health in the aftermath of the disaster, and therefore couldn't be held professionally accountable for his actions that day. I don't know how he can sleep at night.

On the point of the ambulance, there was a superb feature in The Observer on Sunday 15th March, with one section being an interview with the driver of the only ambulance that gained access to the pitch that day. He gave his version of events, and there were pictures alongside the interview showing his ambulance out on the pitch engulfed by the chaos around him. Yet during the enquiry, it was stated that no ambulance gained entry to the field of play, and therefore no statement was required from this paramedic.

The court heard that no ambulance gained access to the pitch, yet everyone watching Grandstand that day could clearly see the ambulance on the pitch! That is just one small flaw in the entire case. There are many, many more; non more so than the case of Kevin Williams and his signs of life at 4pm. All ignored.

There is the myth that ticketless fans caused the disaster. I hope the figures below do something to dispel that myth. This is a post I spotted on a football fans forum last month:



My précis of what happened using info taken from the HSE Report.

Given all the debate and “opinions” expressed on numerous threads I wanted to post this. My guess is most have never taken the time to read the report, when you do, the cause becomes blindingly obvious.

Turnstiles open..
10,100 capacity through 7 turnstiles

(The Kop End, 21,000 has 42 turnstiles)

Fans start entering from before 12.55 at a steady rate.
At 12.55 CCTV starts recording all fans entering through the 7 turnstiles which are all grouped in one bank.
At 1.40 the rate increased markedly and then remains constant between 2.05 and 2.50.
The rate increases to a peak at 2.55.

The rate of admission was such that queues were forming as the rate of flow through the turnstiles was insufficient to cope with the numbers.

The average capacity of the turnstiles was 660 people / hour.

At 2.00, 2,000 people had been admitted, at 2.55 only 6,000 had been admitted via the turnstiles, 4,000 people are outside the turnstiles with the roar of the crowd as the team comes out on to the pitch.

At 2.48 a gate adjacent the turnstiles was opened and 130 people admitted in single file.

At 2.52 to 2.58 the same gate was opened again for 6 minutes, 1,800 to 2,000 people were admitted with less control. CCTV images show that
while the gate was open for 5.5 minutes, fans walked, not rushed, into the ground.

At 2.59 to 3.07 the same gate was opened again 8 minutes, 90 people were admitted in single file controlled manner.

At 3.05 when the tragedy was occurring the best estimate of numbers in the end is 9,734 against a capacity of 10,100.

Immediately on entering the ground in front of the supporters was a tunnel leading to two central pens, no stewarding was in place to direct fans so excessive numbers chose the obvious entrance.

At the end of the 20 m long, 3.65m wide tunnel two pens were entered through apertures of under 6’

The designed capacities of the pens were calculated at 1015 and 1036, In reality the capacities should have been reduced as other factors were unsatisfactory,

Once in the pens the weight of numbers behind would be such that there would be absolutely no chance of exiting against the flow.

In previous years police had been placed at this central entrance tunnel to ensure they were not filled beyond capacity, once filled the gates would be closed and fans directed elsewhere, police officers were not deployed there on this occasion.

The pens to either side of these two pens were significantly under capacity.

Signage to indicate the alternative means of ingress was poor.

From very careful analysis of photo’s taken at 3.05 it is estimated in pen 3 with a capacity of 1015 there were1576 souls and the density increased to the front of the pen. Pen 4 was concluded to be similarly over capacity.

Given no means of escape because of the mesh perimeter fencing 96 people died.

When finally opened the single 2’ 6” gate was unable to ease the problem quickly enough.



On FA Cup semi final weekend, there are plans for a minutes applause before the game to remember the 96 that died at Hillsborough. Plans that have been agreed between the Hillsborough Family Support Group (HFSG) and the FA. It seems as though a minutes applause is the new minutes silence, no matter what the situation.

My understanding, is that a minutes applause is to celebrate a life. An appreciation and celebration of a life. I'm sure it's not just myself that finds applauding the deaths of 96 fans a little sickening. 96 lives that were lost during a disaster, and people are meant to applaud that? It's absolute madness.

For me, the 20th anniversary should be being used to educate the masses about the real truth regarding Hillsborough. It should be used to get right behind Anne Williams in her fight in the European Courts. It should be used to highlight that 20 years on, still nobody has been held accountable for those deaths.

I could go on and on, but would rather point you in the direction of the following if you wish to read further:

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

JUSTICE FOR THE 96!
http://timesonline.typepad.com/fanzi...borough--.html
 
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Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 07:40 #2 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
Naturally i've tried to find out as much about the incident as i could, however there are loads of different explanations and many have different things that are not in others. I still sort of struggle to gather an exact explanation in my head, plenty of times i've been asked by people '' what exactly happened'' and i've struggled to properly give an explanation.

Good read though.
 
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 11:19 #3 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
Originally Posted by Swifter
Naturally i've tried to find out as much about the incident as i could, however there are loads of different explanations and many have different things that are not in others. I still sort of struggle to gather an exact explanation in my head, plenty of times i've been asked by people '' what exactly happened'' and i've struggled to properly give an explanation.

Good read though.

The timeline on the contrast website and Phil Scraton's book are probably best
 
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 11:54 #4 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
I too struggle to envision exactly what went on in those few minutes. I think it would be really excellent if a properly directed and dignified documentary were put forward to explain the injustice of how the sun reported the situation, and give all this evidence to protest the innocence of Pool's fans. All these facts and figures, even for me as a physics student, without diagrams are really hard to digest.

Does anyone know if a decent documentary is in circulation? No doubt it'll go on tv at some stage around the 15th.

In an odd way, however, I am glad I don't have to totally understand the horrific scenario that went on... No one should have to comprehend situations like that, let alone be part of them. Sadly, some don't have that choice anymore.
 
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 11:55 #5 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
Anyone with half a brain can deduce the difference between truth, half-truth, and lies. The rest will carry on regardless. Unfortunately most on here are utter ******* idiots, and this is supposed to be a place of (nominally) educated people. I gave up faith in humanity a long time ago.
 
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 13:49 #6 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
Originally Posted by RobbieC
I too struggle to envision exactly what went on in those few minutes. I think it would be really excellent if a properly directed and dignified documentary were put forward to explain the injustice of how the sun reported the situation, and give all this evidence to protest the innocence of Pool's fans. All these facts and figures, even for me as a physics student, without diagrams are really hard to digest.

Does anyone know if a decent documentary is in circulation? No doubt it'll go on tv at some stage around the 15th.

In an odd way, however, I am glad I don't have to totally understand the horrific scenario that went on... No one should have to comprehend situations like that, let alone be part of them. Sadly, some don't have that choice anymore.

From Newsnight last night - 35mins in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ht_30_03_2009/
 
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 14:16 #7 
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The Newsnight feature was well done I think, very insightful.
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 14:41 #8 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
Originally Posted by RobbieC
I too struggle to envision exactly what went on in those few minutes. I think it would be really excellent if a properly directed and dignified documentary were put forward to explain the injustice of how the sun reported the situation, and give all this evidence to protest the innocence of Pool's fans. All these facts and figures, even for me as a physics student, without diagrams are really hard to digest.

Does anyone know if a decent documentary is in circulation? No doubt it'll go on tv at some stage around the 15th.

In an odd way, however, I am glad I don't have to totally understand the horrific scenario that went on... No one should have to comprehend situations like that, let alone be part of them. Sadly, some don't have that choice anymore.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/index.htm

Goes through it quite well, with pictures and diagrams and everything is broken up into sections. Jimmy McGovern made a docu-drama called "Hillsborough" but Granada refuse to show it and it hasn't been released on DVD etc. As i'm sure you know there are probably other ways of getting it. History Channel are doing a 1hr program for this year's anniversary.

Anyone with half a brain can deduce the difference between truth, half-truth, and lies

Let's be honest, a lot of football fans are idiots. There are too many Joe Publics on the street who will believe anything they are told which is why the red tops have such influence. And then that's not helped by people like Brian Clough who spout their own crap to fill their own egos and agendas
 
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 14:48 #9 
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Just a note about the applause, although I agree with what was said - a packed Wembley with 50,000 bevvied mancs and evertonians holding a minute's "silence". Not sure about that, no doubt there'd be some dickheads in that
 
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 16:08 #10 
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Basically the fault of the stewards and South Yorkshire police
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 16:25 #11 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
Football is an amazing game when you truly love it and your team there's little of anything that can come between you and the game, but people losing their lives - however much they represent your rivalry in the game - is one of those things.

Because people dying is not a part of that game, and I really wish everyone involved could see that.

Lifetime bans wont be sufficient for the ******** that disrupt a minutes silence.
 
Old 31-03-2009: 31st March 2009 23:43 #12 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
Originally Posted by RobbieC
Football is an amazing game when you truly love it and your team there's little of anything that can come between you and the game, but people losing their lives - however much they represent your rivalry in the game - is one of those things.

Because people dying is not a part of that game, and I really wish everyone involved could see that.

Lifetime bans wont be sufficient for the ******** that disrupt a minutes silence.

All well and good for the majority but the ******* who since their songs, put their hands over the faces at the segregation line at OT or those who disrupted the silence in 2001 at Goodison disagree. It's unfortunate but it's a reality. To see a minute's silence for Hillsborough disrupted by some dickheads at a cup semi final 20 years on would be heartbreaking.
 
Old 01-04-2009: 1st April 2009 01:31 #13 
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Originally Posted by kpg
To see a minute's silence for Hillsborough disrupted by some dickheads at a cup semi final 20 years on would be heartbreaking.
It'd kill a lot of the everton old boys too. I feel sorry for them, they experienced the heartbreak and suffering that hillsborough caused both clubs, not just Liverpool. And the younger generation seem to have forgotten about that, and deem it acceptable to mock the death or their fellow scousers.
 
Old 01-04-2009: 1st April 2009 02:48 #14 
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Default Re: A read for everyone...
 
Originally Posted by kpg
Jimmy McGovern made a docu-drama called "Hillsborough" but Granada refuse to show it and it hasn't been released on DVD etc.
i saw it on youtube a few months ago. http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...972342TqHTGyMh is a preview of it.
 
Old 01-04-2009: 1st April 2009 13:57 #15 
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Originally Posted by El Stevo
i saw it on youtube a few months ago. http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...972342TqHTGyMh is a preview of it.

Install the Veoh web player and you see all of it, it lasts 1hr 49 mins btw.
Old 01-04-2009: 1st April 2009 15:39 #16 
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Originally Posted by Johnni
Install the Veoh web player and you see all of it, it lasts 1hr 49 mins btw.
I know.. was hoping people would realise that was kind what I was intending...
 
 
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