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Reply 20
FyreFight
Islam seems to have the most pointlessly overbearing and inconveniencing rules of any of today's major religions. I couldn't ever understand why anyone would volunteer themselves for that lifestyle.

yeah to you it does, and many other people

but to others, they find Islam and its rules and regulations justified and stuff

all people are different and have different views and ways they live their life

you have yours

i have mine

life is great this way :yep:
FyreFight
Islam seems to have the most pointlessly overbearing and inconveniencing rules of any of today's major religions. I couldn't ever understand why anyone would volunteer themselves for that lifestyle.


All it takes is an ounce of logic to think about this FyreFight.

If it is the most, to quote '..pointlessly overbearing and inconveniencing rules of any of today's major religions..' why does it have the largest conversion rate of any religion today?

Why are all these converts, to quote again '..volunteer themselves for that lifestyle..' if it was so oppressive?

ITSA MYSTERY! :eek3:
It won't work because horses are unbelievably stupid. Dogs are infinitely more intelligent.

Good for her if she wants a companion, but she can't expect anyone to be able to train it to actually do any guiding
Topmanfaz
All it takes is an ounce of logic to think about this FyreFight.

If it is the most, to quote '..pointlessly overbearing and inconveniencing rules of any of today's major religions..' why does it have the largest conversion rate of any religion today?

Why are all these converts, to quote again '..volunteer themselves for that lifestyle..' if it was so oppressive?

ITSA MYSTERY! :eek3:



I don't get it.. your post contains no logic. Only easily answered questions that have little to do with my post.


There are plenty of potential reasons. People liking it for its 'peace' message. People wanting to join an alternate culture. People trying to find God when they've failed with other religions. The list goes on, but none of this in any way negates the fact that Islam has many seemingly needless obligations.
That's just ******* stupid. Man up and get a guide dog. I've met dirtier humans than most dogs.
Reply 25

Originally Posted by k9ruby
Ditto. Probably much cleaner than a horse as well. I know dog poop is bad, but at least you can pooper scoop it. What are horse owners supposed to do? Use bin bags?

Exactly.

Probably have a separate house for the horse to crap in...
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Imagine if it happened in tesco. But then it has probably been trained.
Yusuf.T
yeah to you it does, and many other people

but to others, they find Islam and its rules and regulations justified and stuff

all people are different and have different views and ways they live their life

you have yours

i have mine

life is great this way :yep:



Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising them for compelling themselves to follow these rules. I can completely understand that they may seem justified if you genuinely believe that they were issued by a God. I was merely commenting that to me, they seem entirely arbitrary. Why should a dog be seen as unclean, but a horse not? To me, God seems to be somewhat inconsistent with his decisions.
Such retardness, it's a bit shocking really.
Reply 28
I totally agree with what "Yusuf.T" and "xwardax" have said!
Reply 29
I've met dirtier humans than most dogs.


Must say I agree on this one. Bit impratical to keep in a domestic enviroment as well. Surely it would prefer to be in a big field running around with its own kind rather than being strapped to a harness in tesco. At least dogs are intelligent and want to intergrate humans into their pack and have been working on a one to one basis with man in assistance services for 100years + - and mans best friend - can the same be said about horses?

But then I'm no horse expert. Who knows.
FyreFight
I don't get it.. your post contains no logic. Only easily answered questions that have little to do with my post.


No logic? Why don't you elaborate?

I'm pretty much dumbfounded and left in the dark as to why my post contains 'no logic'. -.-

There are plenty of potential reasons. People liking it for its 'peace' message. People wanting to join an alternate culture. People trying to find God when they've failed with other religions. The list goes on, but none of this in any way negates the fact that Islam has many seemingly needless obligations.


All religions have 'peace' messages? Why choose Islam seeing as its image in the Western world (where the majority of converts are) is anything BUT peaceful. Same goes for 'finding God'.

Joining an anti-war movement would be less of a hassle (and would be free of what you call needless obligations) no Monsieur?
Reply 31
FyreFight
Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising them for compelling themselves to follow these rules. I can completely understand that they may seem justified if you genuinely believe that they were issued by a God. I was merely commenting that to me, they seem entirely arbitrary. Why should a dog be seen as unclean, but a horse not? To me, God seems to be somewhat inconsistent with his decisions.

Well im from a muslim family but i personally dont follow Islam, i believe in God and all, but not religion.. so i get what you mean about dogs being seen as dirrty but not horses

and personally i dont find pigs dirrty myself.. i mean 'Babe' is one of my childhood fav films lol

honestly, i dunno why one animal is seen as clean and not another.. ive just always been told about dirrty animals=dirrty house= no angels blessing your house when you read namaaz.
Reply 32
Can someone explain the logic behind the dog being unclean, someone aluded to saliva but I'm really interested in why.
Topmanfaz
No logic? Why don't you elaborate?

I'm pretty much dumbfounded and left in the dark as to why my post contains 'no logic'. -.-



All religions have 'peace' messages? Why choose Islam seeing as its image in the Western world (where the majority of converts are) is anything BUT peaceful. Same goes for 'finding God'.

Joining an anti-war movement would be less of a hassle (and would be free of what you call needless obligations) no Monsieur?



Your post contained no logic because it was essentially one giant non-sequitur. Many people convert to Islam -> Islam does not have oppressive rules. Can you see why this doesn't make sense?
Reply 34
RyanT
Can someone explain the logic behind the dog being unclean, someone aluded to saliva but I'm really interested in why.

copy and paste wiki job but hope that helps

The majority of both Sunni and Shi'a Muslim jurists consider dogs to be ritually unclean, though jurists from the Sunni Maliki school disagree.[19] However, outside their ritual uncleanness, Islamic fatwas, or rulings, enjoin that dogs be treated kindly or else be freed. [20]

Muslims generally cast dogs in a negative light because of their ritual impurity. The story of the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus in the Qur'an (and also role of the dog in early Christianity) is one of the striking exceptions.[21] Muhammad didn't like dogs according to Sunni tradition, and most practicing Muslims do not have dogs as pets.[9] It is said that angels do not enter a house which contains a dog. Though dogs are not allowed for pets, they are allowed to be kept if used for work, such as guarding your house or farm, or when used for hunting purposes.

According to a generally unaccepted Sunni tradition attributed to Muhammad, black dogs are evil, or even devils, in animal form. This report reflects the pre-Islamic Arab mythology and the vast majority of Muslim jurists viewed it to be falsely attributed to Muhammad.[19]

Another Sunni tradition attributed to Muhammad commands Muslims not trade or deal in dogs.[22] According to El Fadl, this shows the cultural biases against dogs as a source of moral danger.[19] However, the Hanafi scholars, the largest school of ritual law in Sunni Islam, allow all trading in dogs.

According to one story, Muhammad is said to have informed a prostitute who had seen a thirsty dog hanging about a well and given it water to drink. Allah forgave her because of that good deed. Sahih Bukhari 4.56.673 [9]

In a tradition found in the Sunni hadith book, al-Muwatta, Muhammad states that the company of dogs voids a portion of a Muslim’s good deeds.[23]

Dogs, outside the ritual legal discourse, were often portrayed in the literature as a symbol of highly esteemed virtues such as self-sacrifice and loyalty or on the other hand as an oppressive instrument in the hands of despotic and unjust rulers.[19]

The historian Montgomery Watt states that Muhammad's kindness to animals was remarkable for the social context of his upbringing. He cites an instance of Muhammed posting sentries to ensure that a female dog with newborn puppies was not disturbed by his army traveling to Mecca in the year 630
Reply 35
A certain denomination regard dogs as unclean. This is down to being uneducated cretins who live in the secluded desert.
Reply 36
Yusuf.T
copy and paste wiki job but hope that helps


Sorry but I meant explanationswhy it is unclean, rather then references to "it's unclean".

"it is said that angels do not enter a house which contains a dog."

Does anyone know what particular ruling or if this is in the Koran?

Not trading or dealing in dogs isn't really a problem with keeping them :s-smilie:

I see the bit about voiding good deeds but that doesn't mean you can't keep them.

Sorry but I'm getting a very strong impression this is an Arab cultural thing getting tied up with Islam.
FyreFight
Your post contained no logic because it was essentially one giant non-sequitur. Many people convert to Islam (the largest conversion rate of any religion) -> Islam does not have oppressive rules. Can you see why this doesn't make sense?


Little editing to your post.

And yes of course it makes sense.

Think about it, if you were to convert to a religion, would not study that religion beforehand?

Would you not review/analyse/criticise the cultural/political/theological manifestations of that religion before you converted?

Of course you would!

If 'oppressive rules' and 'needless obligations' were identified in the study of the potential religion (bearing in mind this is lifelong obligation), would you not refuse to convert?

Of course you would!
I know Muslims can not eat out of a plate which a dog touches without washing it several times. If its a cat they are permitted to do so. I dont see why people are shocked, dogs are just not clean animals. they lick everything for a start, their saliva stinks and they poo all over. Most have fleas to. Cats on the other hand use litter boxes and are hygenic animals - always cleaning themselves etc. Its just their instinct to be clean.

I am sure if a Muslim needs guide dog they will be allowed to keep one.
Reply 39
cocacola786
Cats on the other hand use litter boxes and are hygenic animals - always cleaning themselves etc. Its just their instinct to be clean.


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