[Little Red Jockstrap]

I didn't say everyone thinks like I do (it's actually kind of ironic you're accusing me of that because I actually think ranking in general is pretty silly). I just said that Ivy Leagues, whether fair or not carry a special mark of prestige with most people, which you yourself finally admitted just now. This prestige can lead to higher esteem with many people, a good deal of which aren't 'teenage girls who watch tv shows'.
That's all I said. Did I proclaim myself word of god? No. Did I ever say these things weren't subjective? No. I would really appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth, it kind of doesn't help your argument if you're using straw man as a persuasive strategy.

I realise you've probably read some worldwide rankings of universities, which is why you're sticking by this conviction? As I mentioned before several times, all of the programs at the top are so good, the difference between place 16 and 50 can be one lousy professor or one disgruntled student who got a bad grade and evaluated the uni in the survey badly. You honestly think uni rankings aren't subjective? They weren't handed down from the heavens. Everything is subjective, so that's hardly an apt criticism.

[jy9626]

(Original post by Little Red Jockstrap)
I didn't say everyone thinks like I do (it's actually kind of ironic you're accusing me of that because I actually think ranking in general is pretty silly). I just said that Ivy Leagues, whether fair or not carry a special mark of prestige with most people, which you yourself finally admitted just now. This prestige can lead to higher esteem with many people, a good deal of which aren't 'teenage girls who watch tv shows'.
That's all I said. Did I proclaim myself word of god? No. Did I ever say these things weren't subjective? No. I would really appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth, it kind of doesn't help your argument if you're using straw man as a persuasive strategy.

I realise you've probably read some worldwide rankings of universities, which is why you're sticking by this conviction? As I mentioned before several times, all of the programs at the top are so good, the difference between place 16 and 50 can be one lousy professor or one disgruntled student who got a bad grade and evaluated the uni in the survey badly. You honestly think uni rankings aren't subjective? They weren't handed down from the heavens. Everything is subjective, so that's hardly an apt criticism.

Now, you've changed your initial opinion. On some of your sentences, you're contradicting yourself. for instance, it was you who said it's obvious that ivy league schools are more prestigious than ucla. it was you who said 'everyone' thinks the way you do and tried to generalize. if you admit that this issue is all subjective, then why did you say that it's all 'obvious'? lol.
And yes, the rankings are rather more objective than your views. (or mine)

[River85]

Can we please keep this on topic (and discuss Durham and UCL only)? I think we've had enough discussion about American universities and this is just descending into an argument. Thanks

[River85]

(Original post by Little Red Jockstrap)
x

I think I've killed your thread

Is there anything more you want to know about UCL or Durham (their english courses or just about the unis in general). Are you still concerned about John's and its religious affiliatons?

[Jelkin]

I chose Durham over UCL and I don't regret it; I don't think UCL would offer the proper student experience. My dad went to Imperial and told me I shouldn't go to uni in London.

However, you're from the States, which changes things. I can (and hopefully will) live in London later in life, enjoying all its benefits with enough money to do so properly as I'll have a job! It's possible you won't have this luxury. On the other hand, Durham is a medieval city with really beautiful ancient architecture and in that sense offers you something you wouldn't really see in America.

The people I've known at John's love it there - because it's small it has a really intimate atmosphere and everyone knows each other. But if this doesn't suit you, you can get to know people on your course and jump ship from your second year on by living in rented accommodation with mates

Anyway, look into the unis and decide what's right for you personally. PM me if you have any specific questions!

[Little Red Jockstrap]

(Original post by jy9626)
Now, you've changed your initial opinion. On some of your sentences, you're contradicting yourself. for instance, it was you who said it's obvious that ivy league schools are more prestigious than ucla. it was you who said 'everyone' thinks the way you do and tried to generalize. if you admit that this issue is all subjective, then why did you say that it's all 'obvious'? lol.
And yes, the rankings are rather more objective than your views. (or mine)

They're not just my views you're talking about. I know you don't like them, so you feel the need to imply only I think this way, but I assure you that that's a false impression. Many more, I'd even venture to say the majority, agree with me. To most, ivy league *is* special, and *is* a mark of snobbery. It even says so on the wikipedia page, a "subjective" source:
"The term also has connotations of academic excellence, selectivity in admissions, and social elitism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_league

It's you that's militantly jumping down someone's throat for having a different opinion here, not me. You started the argument. As I said before, 'think what you want'. I'm just repeating what is, whether fair or not, a somewhat established truth: notthat the Ivies are better per se, but that to most people they carry a mark of prestige.

Also, This topic was supposed to be about UCL vs. Durham. If you want to argue with some other American kids about whether UCLA is more prestigious than Brown, there's a topic on American schools where I suggest you go. I'd really rather get email updates from this topic from people who went to UCL or Durham and can give me their opinion, than some kid who picks up on the most insignificant thing I mentioned and starts a four page flame war because of it.

[Little Red Jockstrap]

(Original post by River85)
I think I've killed your thread

Is there anything more you want to know about UCL or Durham (their english courses or just about the unis in general). Are you still concerned about John's and its religious affiliatons?

Eh, you're fine. I think the walloftext arguments kindof did it xD

I'm just wondering... this might sound kind of sappy, but I'm kind of concerned about it. Since the UK is geographically smaller than america, and more kids are closer to home, will they be necessarily as concerned with I am as making friends, since they already have friends not to far away? Like, which ones are seen as the more "permanent" friends... college ones or ones from school?
Also, will I stick out because of my accent? I could always put one on

[MrGumby]

(Original post by Little Red Jockstrap)
Eh, you're fine. I think the walloftext arguments kindof did it xD

I'm just wondering... this might sound kind of sappy, but I'm kind of concerned about it. Since the UK is geographically smaller than america, and more kids are closer to home, will they be necessarily as concerned with I am as making friends, since they already have friends not to far away? Like, which ones are seen as the more "permanent" friends... college ones or ones from school?
Also, will I stick out because of my accent? I could always put one on

Grades dependent I'm going to Durham next year and it's quite far away from where I live (admittedly not as far as the USA) so I'll have no friends (well...1 boy is coming up from my school aswell) when I get there and I have a Welsh accent which sticks out quite a bit. So there will be people there who are in the same situation with you.

[Little Red Jockstrap]

(Original post by MrGumby)
Grades dependent I'm going to Durham next year and it's quite far away from where I live (admittedly not as far as the USA) so I'll have no friends (well...1 boy is coming up from my school aswell) when I get there and I have a Welsh accent which sticks out quite a bit. So there will be people there who are in the same situation with you.

I've never heard a Welsh accent, I bet it sounds awesome though. Much better than an American accent (I have a standard one I suppose), which I always think sounds like a bus hooter next to British ones.

[Aula]

Distances may be smaller, but they are still fairly large for the majority of people. I've not been home that much apart from during the holidays.
also, friends go off to different universities, isn't really possible for friends from home to be important. The most that'll happen is that friends from home will be more important during the holidays, friends from uni more so during term time. So don't worry about it (no matter which one you go to).

I think I worded that really badly, but hopefully you've understood my gist...

[piiineapple]

i'm going to durham (grades dependant) too and im going hunddddreds of miles. so, granted, i'm not going to a different country or continent but combined with the fact that i didn't like that many people in my sixth form and the fact that durham is bloody far away, i will certainly not be disinterested in new people. def not. and don;t worry about the accent at all, most people will find it cool!

[River85]

(Original post by Little Red Jockstrap)
I'm just wondering... this might sound kind of sappy, but I'm kind of concerned about it. Since the UK is geographically smaller than america, and more kids are closer to home, will they be necessarily as concerned with I am as making friends, since they already have friends not to far away? Like, which ones are seen as the more "permanent" friends... college ones or ones from school?

The UK may be a lot smaller but many of the people who go to both universities will be from the south of England, particularly the south east and home counties. So for Durham we're talking about hundreds of miles. A distance that can be covered in just a few hours, but still a fair distance away from friends and family. When you consider that many old school friends are also dotted around the country, it can often be hard to maintain these relatonships.

There'll be loads of people eager to make friends at uni, especially as it's a new environment and some fear being lonely. There's no reason why these can't develop into lifelong frienships. University friends to seem to be more "permanent" than school friends. Many find they lose touch with most of their school friends or outgrow them. You meet your university friends at completely different stage in life, when you've possibly fully matured as a person.

[MrGumby]

(Original post by Little Red Jockstrap)
I've never heard a Welsh accent, I bet it sounds awesome though. Much better than an American accent (I have a standard one I suppose), which I always think sounds like a bus hooter next to British ones.

I wouldn't get your hopes up tbh. There were some Americans on the open day when I went there and the accent did sound pretty cool.

[Jelkin]

(Original post by Little Red Jockstrap)
Eh, you're fine. I think the walloftext arguments kindof did it xD

I'm just wondering... this might sound kind of sappy, but I'm kind of concerned about it. Since the UK is geographically smaller than america, and more kids are closer to home, will they be necessarily as concerned with I am as making friends, since they already have friends not to far away? Like, which ones are seen as the more "permanent" friends... college ones or ones from school?
Also, will I stick out because of my accent? I could always put one on

I reckon that's more likely to happen in London, but still not really. Everyone is out to make great friends at uni. Durham is particularly great for socialising due to its collegiate system and its hundreds of clubs and societies.

Your accent will make you stand out, but it will only make you interesting and special in a positive way generic hybrid is a Yank at Durham so you can always ask her about her experiences ... you'll find her in the Durham General Chat Thread.

[Dann]

(Original post by Jelkin)
I don't think UCL would offer the proper student experience.

How so?

[Jelkin]

(Original post by Dann)
How so?

Because London is not a student city. Things are spread out over the city and it's just ... less ... studenty than, say, Durham. I went to visit a friend there and she said it was all very segregated and there wasn't a massive communal social atmosphere. I'm not saying going to uni there wouldn't be good - I'm sure I would have loved it - but that was quite a large factor in my decision to choose Durham, which I also recognise does not suit all people.

[RocknRap]

(Original post by Starkadder)
If you're looking for international rep (as an American student, maybe concerned about how your degree with travel), then I'd have to say UCL wins it.

My girlfriend (PHD student in Durham, undergrad at Cal, Berkeley) attended an event the other day with Bill Bryson aimed at trying getting ideas to raise the prestige of Durham in the USA so it can compete with St. Andrews, UCL, etc. it's certainly an issue the University is aware of, so who knows what will happen across the next few years.

As for which is a better 'student' experience, I have friends at both who have enjoyed their time. Durham gets called 'collegiate' but it's really not in the sense that Ox/Camb are: more you simply retain an affiliation to your hall of residence after you leave (plus they all have bars). I think it gets called 'socially collegiate'. The upshot of this is that making friends at either will be easy enough, so I wouldn't take the whole 'collegiate' argument too seriously. In London you'll be in a big city and have access to all those amenities, Durham will have more green space.

Durham does have a bit of a rep. in the UK for attracting bitter Oxbridge rejects and some pricks, but as any student there will tell you you get twits everywhere and most students at any university are going to be fine. UCL has a bit more of a hippy, left-wing rep (it often reminds me of a UK version of Berkeley), but again, take this with a pinch of salt.

In general, if anyone tells you hands down that either UCL or Durham has a better rep within the UK they're probably grinding some sort of axe.

People will talk about the 'G5' or even 'Doxbridge'... (yes I know it was originally a sporting competition etc. etc.), but basically below Oxford and Cambridge, the top 10 (ish) UK universities are pretty much even.

A note on subject league tables. I'd ignore them. Unless one of your universities is ranking well below another, they're largely pointless & simply provide ammunition for people to grind their various axes on forums like this. Unless you're looking at the sciences and wanting to go into academia / research, provided a department is coming in the top 10-20 and has a good student satisfaction don't worry too much. In terms of career prospects, no employer is ever going to care that [insert university here] ranked above Cambridge for English in the year you applied... overall rep is a far better indicator and UK-wise they're pretty even (although UCL is certainly more world renowned).

Hope this helps. TSR is a huge hive of wobbling insecurities so try to ignore any posts that don't substantiate claims. It also is mainly driven by high school students who have little experience of the Universities they're talking about! If I were you i'd look at the modules offered by both & see which you like the look of more! Personally I'd pick Durham for quality of life / cheaper accommodation but London for employability / academics. It won't matter too much either way though.

Also - I should add, I'm a student at neither (although I had offers from both back in the day, visited them and have friends who chose to go to each).

Congratulations on posting in a thread that died 3yrs ago