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I wish the media would stop criticizing our police force?

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Comp_Genius

I don't think how the woman behaved should be the point of interest. The only thing that matters is whether she was acting leaglly or illegally

I would love to know what it was she did that was deemed "illegal" enough for the police officer to give her a thump with his stick.

Ok, she might have been stupid

How? Did she say something out of turn? Was she gobbing off to the coppers?
If so then yeah that is pretty dumb.

but that does not give the officer the right to smack her face. You cannot breach somebody else's constitutional right just because they are acting stupid. If she was acting illegally, then the officer would well be within his power to do so. Indeed I would have support the officer to do that if he thought she was acting illegally and indeeed he would have been acting intra vires by powers devolved to him by Parliament

Yes I agree.

Reply 81

Lifelongstudent

and what if a police officer verbally insulted a citizen? make a citizens arrest? LMAO

Reply 82

Comp_Genius

halbeth

Ah but that's the thing, if I recall, insulting a police officer IS illegal and has been for a very long time.

Ah, I wasn't sure if that was the law or not.

But then this supports the notion that the officer should have arrested her and taken her into his custody, and not assault her.

Reply 83

halbeth

Comp_Genius

Ah, I wasn't sure if that was the law or not.

But then this supports the notion that the officer should have arrested her and taken her into his custody, and not assault her.

No because from what other people have said, the entire footage shows that the baton is in response to her grabbing him.

Reply 84

Lifelongstudent

In the police officers defence, however, he could not arrest her as then he would be open to attack by protestors as he couldnt detain her by his lonesome.

Reply 85

Lifelongstudent

Halbeth: wow you have excellent A-levels grdes there. Good luck.

Reply 86

halbeth

Lifelongstudent

Halbeth: wow you have excellent A-levels grdes there. Good luck.

That's a bit random of you to say but thank you ><

Reply 87

Shayke

numb3rb0y

If someone got in my face and shouted abuse at me, and my response was to slap them and then hit them with an offensive weapon, I should expect myself to be very lucky were I not at least on the receiving end of a police caution, if not charges. Arguable provocation and a tense situation would be issues for consideration during sentencing, they wouldn't give me a free pass.

But then I'm just a civilian, I guess I shouldn't expect police officers to receive the same treatment as us peasants.

So, if the police shouldn't use their batons to potentially defend themselves, what do they use them for?

In a time of panic when the police were trying to move forward to gain control of a situation, a woman gets in their way. When pushed aside she then went back at the guy for more. As far as the policeman was concerned this woman could have had a knife couldn't she?

I do agree though, that violence should be the last resort. I just think in this case it was justified.

Reply 88

Comp_Genius

Lifelongstudent

and what if a police officer verbally insulted a citizen? make a citizens arrest? LMAO

Yes, logically we should be allowed to, if ordinary citizens can be arrested by the police for insulting them, I think, but only if the insult does not obstruct the officer from executing his duty.

If we are not allowed to make the citizen's arrest, then it would be both unconstitutional in British law, but not necessarily illegal, but would be illegal under the European Communities Act 1972, which provides that European Community Law prevails over National law. And if British Courts fail to interpret statutes in comformity with EU law, then indeed Article 234 of the EU Treaty provides that the European Court of Justice may rule on the interpretation of the Treaty, and on the validity and interpretation of acts of the institutions of the Community....

Reply 89

Lifelongstudent

Halbeth: Sorry I only just noticed. Getting 1 A at A-level is an achievement on its own.

Reply 90

Amy***

halbeth

From what I've heard, he tapped her lightly with his glove, he's allowed to do that as a warning, 'reasonable force', she then escalated by grabbing him, he then used 'reasonable force' to stop her from doing this.

The others are disgraceful, I agree, but I hate how people assume that police officers are all just bullies out to get the public when the majority aren't and are people doing a very stressful and difficult job in situations like this. They're people too you know.

Yeh i agree that we must view police and people and that a lot of police a perfectly nice/reasonable people. But the scale of the abuse of police power at the G20 just makes me question how deep this police machismo/power trip behaviour really runs.

Reply 91

jayman

I wish some TSR users would stop criticizing muslims?

Reply 92

Lifelongstudent

You have to understand that within the context of police canteen culture, and police officers looking out for one another, a citizen 'arresting' an officer, on average, belongs to parables of the fiction. I would love for it to eb true, but in reality? ...

Reply 93

Shayke

mja

If when that person "gets in your face" they commit a crime, then arrest them. Beyond that the police have no more entitlement to use force here than an ordinary citizen - both are permitted to use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in self-defence, and to prevent an offence being committed.

It was 'ordinary citizens' who rushed the police into a corner. The people who broke into RBS were 'ordinary citizens'

From what I've seen of the video, I'd say self defense was the reason the woman got hit. If she'd have backed off, and not given the policeman any more of a threat to worry about, she wouldn't have got a baton to the face. If she'd done what she was told, by the authority.

Reply 94

ch0c0h01ic

Lifelongstudent

The police are already well paid. Which is in dire contrast to British soldiers who go through ALOT more than what the police do by LITERALLY risking their necks., for pitiful pay at around 12000 a year.

12+ hour night shifts for weeks at a time?

Inconvenient work hours and little annual leave (A friend of mine hasn't had a Christmas day off in over 20 years)

Being assaulted or even killed by criminals?

A lack of support from the public and the media to the extent that many are scared to make their profession public for fear of reprisal attacks from the local scum?

All for £20k a year, what a bargain.

Yes our armed forces are underpaid, then again I'd say the same for most of our public services.

joey11223

I'm not so much on their side about the De Menzes case as it seems to me the public all agreed the officers didn't shout stop to him like they said or even said they were police.

The Menzees case is completely different. The officers involved were facing a potential suicide bomber, their action could potentially save scores of lives, equally it could lead to a horrific accident.

Yes in the public arena you can shout at someone to stop but do that to a suicide bomber and you warn him of your intentions. That then gives him enough time to blow himself, and everyone around him, up.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

cognito_08

To be honest I think one of the huge factors causing stress for both police officers and protesters was the "kettling" employed - another fantastic policing decision.

It kept most of the criminals in one place preventing widespread damage and injury. In a lot of senses it was a success. What was their other option?

What caused the most stress undoubtedly was people trying to break the cordon, people assaulting the officers, etc. If people were compliant and showed a degree of respect towards the officers it wouldn't have been stressful.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Reply 95

Lifelongstudent

20K for a job that requires only 5 C grades at GCSE and low english/math skills.... not bad.

I stand by my point that soldiers should get higher pay. They risk limb every day via bullets and mines.

Reply 96

Lifelongstudent

being assaulted or killed by criminals can be said for citizens too. You risk that everytime you walk through your front door. Just a question of scale.

Reply 97

Shayke

I've just looked back at the video of the woman getting hit.

He pushes her back, controlling the space that he is in, so people don't push through the police lines.

She says "what are you doing, touching a ******* woman"

She gets a slap back for that.

She then comes and confronts the guy again, who hits her with his baton.

Reply 98

joey11223

thunder_chunky

Firstly, in my post that you quoted, who wrote in the bits in bold? Was that you?

Secondly its true that police officers tend to cover up for each other, but partly I think its because they know that if they didn't they would get screwed over even more by the media, public, and the politicians who scrutinize every move they make.

yeah lol mine were the bold bits. I think it's hard to pass judgement without full footage of a few minutes before the event as well. I guess I usually tend to try and support the one who is being criticised unless it's 100% obvious it's entirely their fault.

Reply 99

Lifelongstudent

I have more sympathy for Ian tomlinson than the woman. The guy was shoved for no reason. police brutality basically. Also wasnt the riot police regarding Ian wearing some kind of balaclava masks? lol paramilitary right?