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Bismarck
Got me there. I meant schools that specialize in pre-med.

Alright, then. Still, I think for some professions, it is important to have *some* diversity in education. And I can understand requiring *some* additional courses which are perhaps indirectly linked to the course of study. However, I do disagree with the paternal approach that universities take, forcing a large array of unnecessary liberal arts courses.
Reply 61
psychic_satori
Alright, then. Still, I think for some professions, it is important to have *some* diversity in education. And I can understand requiring *some* additional courses which are perhaps indirectly linked to the course of study. However, I do disagree with the paternal approach that universities take, forcing a large array of unnecessary liberal arts courses.


Considering that the students are paying almost the entire cost of going to college, it would make sense to let them decide how their money would be spent. It's the college's job to provide the student with a good enough education to get a job. It's not its job to be your big brother. There would be nothing wrong with allowing a student to take some unrelated courses if they so desire, but it doesn't make much sense to decide for them.

For example, when I was taking my political science courses, most of the people there were taking the class as a requirement and didn't know anything about political science. This forced the professor to slow down and dumb down the lessons to the lowest common denominator. I don't think this helped anyone but the political science department, which might not have otherwise filled the class (I go to a college with a large emphasis on business, and a vast majority of the students are business majors).

I also don't think a patient would appreciate his doctor having less knowledge about medicine because he was forced to take political science classes. :smile:
Bismarck
Considering that the students are paying almost the entire cost of going to college, it would make sense to let them decide how their money would be spent. It's the college's job to provide the student with a good enough education to get a job. It's not its job to be your big brother. There would be nothing wrong with allowing a student to take some unrelated courses if they so desire, but it doesn't make much sense to decide for them.

For example, when I was taking my political science courses, most of the people there were taking the class as a requirement and didn't know anything about political science. This forced the professor to slow down and dumb down the lessons to the lowest common denominator. I don't think this helped anyone but the political science department, which might not have otherwise filled the class (I go to a college with a large emphasis on business, and a vast majority of the students are business majors).

I also don't think a patient would appreciate his doctor having less knowledge about medicine because he was forced to take political science classes. :smile:


Well, I was speaking of the difference between university-wide requirements, and departmental curriculum requirements. There are certain liberal arts classes that can be beneficial to your studies, and, students can't be permitted to just choose only classes that they want to take, because then there would be no real standard to compare graduates with the same degree. You may not care whether your doctor can explain the differences between Communism and Socialism, but I think you would find it a little unsettling if he didn't take medical ethics, because he considered it a "BS liberal arts class."
Reply 63
psychic_satori
Well, I was speaking of the difference between university-wide requirements, and departmental curriculum requirements. There are certain liberal arts classes that can be beneficial to your studies, and, students can't be permitted to just choose only classes that they want to take, because then there would be no real standard to compare graduates with the same degree. You may not care whether your doctor can explain the differences between Communism and Socialism, but I think you would find it a little unsettling if he didn't take medical ethics, because he considered it a "BS liberal arts class."


Obviously there should be a list of required classes. These classes all have to contribute to the person's profession though. It is in the interest of both the college and the students to make all graduates as qualified as possible in their jobs. Bioethics is an integral part of being a doctor. Chemistry is not an integral part of political science.
Bismarck
Obviously there should be a list of required classes. These classes all have to contribute to the person's profession though. It is in the interest of both the college and the students to make all graduates as qualified as possible in their jobs. Bioethics is an integral part of being a doctor. Chemistry is not an integral part of political science.


Again, you are talking about university-wide curriculum, while I was sticking up for the need to have department-required curriculum aside from the courses taught by that department.
Reply 65
psychic_satori
Again, you are talking about university-wide curriculum, while I was sticking up for the need to have department-required curriculum aside from the courses taught by that department.


I would have no problem with that as long as the department could prove that these courses were relevant and didn't detract from the major itself. The emphasis would still have to be on the core classes. In your example, it would make sense for a doctor to take bioethics, but it wouldn't make sense for half of their courses be about ethics.
Bismarck
I would have no problem with that as long as the department could prove that these courses were relevant and didn't detract from the major itself. The emphasis would still have to be on the core classes. In your example, it would make sense for a doctor to take bioethics, but it wouldn't make sense for half of their courses be about ethics.


Well, just to clarify, bioethics is totally different from medical ethics. Sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk, but that was bugging me.

Anyway, the reason why a department selects required lib arts courses is because they believe it serves the degree in some way. This is totally different from the university-wide requirements, which are just stupid.
Reply 67
psychic_satori
Well, just to clarify, bioethics is totally different from medical ethics. Sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk, but that was bugging me.


Shows you how much I know about that subject. :smile:

Anyway, the reason why a department selects required lib arts courses is because they believe it serves the degree in some way. This is totally different from the university-wide requirements, which are just stupid.

My college didn't have department requirements (other than the classes necessary for the major itself), so I can't really comment on that.
Bismarck

My college didn't have department requirements (other than the classes necessary for the major itself), so I can't really comment on that.


Really?! That's kind of unusual... Oh well, maybe I'm just thinking that because, as a biochem major, I've had basically NO choice in anything in my life, aside from, like, what I eat for breakfast... No electives for me.
Reply 69
psychic_satori
Really?! That's kind of unusual... Oh well, maybe I'm just thinking that because, as a biochem major, I've had basically NO choice in anything in my life, aside from, like, what I eat for breakfast... No electives for me.


My political science department split all the poli sci classes into 6 groups, and the only requirement was to take classes from 4 different groups. There was also an introduction to the American political system class that everyone in the college had to take. Other than that, all the requirements came from the university itself. I did hear that some fields where mistakes could be lethal (anything in the medical profession, engineering, etc.), the departments take a much more paternalistic approach, which is rather strange since anyone wishing to work in those fields should be responsible enough to take the important classes on their own volition.
Bismarck
My political science department split all the poli sci classes into 6 groups, and the only requirement was to take classes from 4 different groups. There was also an introduction to the American political system class that everyone in the college had to take. Other than that, all the requirements came from the university itself. I did hear that some fields where mistakes could be lethal (anything in the medical profession, engineering, etc.), the departments take a much more paternalistic approach, which is rather strange since anyone wishing to work in those fields should be responsible enough to take the important classes on their own volition.


That's awesome. If only you had said that earlier in the semester when I still had Law, Science and Philosophy--it would have helped me power through better. "I have to be here, LIVES are at stake PEOPLE!"
Reply 71
psychic_satori
That's awesome. If only you had said that earlier in the semester when I still had Law, Science and Philosophy--it would have helped me power through better. "I have to be here, LIVES are at stake PEOPLE!"


You never know how many people you could save with a good philosophy. :wink:
Bismarck
You never know how many people you could save with a good philosophy. :wink:


Well, it was more about the interrelation between Law and Science, and the philosophy seemed to be thrown in just because it helped tie both Law and Science together?...I don't know...I hated the philosophy aspect.
Reply 73
psychic_satori
Well, it was more about the interrelation between Law and Science, and the philosophy seemed to be thrown in just because it helped tie both Law and Science together?...I don't know...I hated the philosophy aspect.


Did your department also tell you how often you should brush your teeth? :confused:
Bismarck
Did your department also tell you how often you should brush your teeth? :confused:


No, biochemists can handle that stuff on their own...chemists, however, probably have to be reminded...
Reply 75
I think to have only around 20 classes in a 4 year dagree.
10 classes would be directly connected to your major,5 classes would bewould be connceted in some way to your major and 5 classes would be totally outsideof your major. There would be units (modules) that would taken throughout the year (5 classes each year).
This is for a hisrory major
1st year courses:
English (frashman writing servey)
Maths and one Lab Science
2 history classes
2nd yearcourses:
2 courses of the student choosing
3 History classes
3rd year courses:
5 History courses
4th year courses:
5 History courses
All I know is that if you get into a school like Harvard and study business or Law, you're basically set for life.

No worriying about jobs, as the employers will offer YOU a job, before you even apply.
Of course good grades are a given.
Matt Murdock
All I know is that if you get into a school like Harvard and study business or Law, you're basically set for life.

No worriying about jobs, as the employers will offer YOU a job, before you even apply.
Of course good grades are a given.


Not necessarily. My father went to Harvard and became a lawyer, and while it's certainly a valuable degree he still has to apply for jobs he wants and interview and so forth. 1600 people graduate from Harvard every year, and even more from Yale, Princeton, and Stanford, which have reputations almost as strong, so if you want a job in a major law firm or business you're likely to be competing with people with similar qualifications.

Not to say that employers don't hold ivy league degrees in extremely high regard, but you're not exactly "set for life". The same is (as far as I know) true of Oxbridge in the UK.
beeblebrox87
Not necessarily. My father went to Harvard and became a lawyer, and while it's certainly a valuable degree he still has to apply for jobs he wants and interview and so forth. 1600 people graduate from Harvard every year, and even more from Yale, Princeton, and Stanford, which have reputations almost as strong, so if you want a job in a major law firm or business you're likely to be competing with people with similar qualifications.

Not to say that employers don't hold ivy league degrees in extremely high regard, but you're not exactly "set for life". The same is (as far as I know) true of Oxbridge in the UK.




I see. I guess I just had an exagurated picture of the situation.

BTW please stop by in my thread in the LAW forum, as I'm in desperate need of assistance in a particular matter.
Reply 79
3 Weeks Ago - 07:26 PM - 28-04-2005
usa1981
Full Member Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 117

Reply to Thread: US Ivy League Universities

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I think to have only around 20 classes in a 4 year dagree.
10 classes would be directly connected to your major,5 classes would bewould be connceted in some way to your major and 5 classes would be totally outside of your major. There would be units (modules) that would taken throughout the year (5 classes each year).
This is for a history major
1st year courses:
English (frashman writing semiar)
Maths and one Lab Science
2 history classes
2nd year courses:
2 courses of the student choosing
3 History classes
3rd year courses:
5 History courses
4th year courses:
5 History courses
OR
What about having 24 courses:
same as above but you have one more course each year.
What do you think of this idea? It woould totally change the dagrees in the USA.
This would be better.

What does anyone think of this?

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