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help!!! Nottingham vs sheffield vs birmingham (politics)

i am an international student.i live in asia now .
i really don't know how to choice.
i don't know wchich is better .
can help me ? thank you !!!
undergrduate offer:
sheffield politics and Sociology
nottingham politics
birmingham politics

:eek3:

which is better ?
i am a boy
i want go to a place where can make many friend.i am afraid of lonely!
thank you !!!

i think politics maybe not easy to find a job.
and politics and Sociology maybe have more chances to fiand a job in uk?
i really dont know the information this in uk
i'm worried about it

but my friend tell me the department of politics in sheffield is good.but the politics and Sociology program in the department isn't the main program.and the politics and Sociology maybe not teached well .

is it true?

Reply 1

ElemenT'

13

All offer a similar environment. Large Russell Group city Universities. Go with which course you prefer out of the 3.

Reply 2

megaduck

7

You can't go wrong with any of those, Aaron. They are very similar in terms of reputation and environment. Pick the course that appeals to you most.

Reply 3

Aaron Liuchang

OP

but i think politics maybe not easy to find a job.
and can the politics and Sociology more chances to fiand a job in uk?
i really dont know the information this in uk
i'm worried about it

Reply 4

Broadsword

2

Nottingham has the best reputation out of all of those both for politics and in general. Sheffield and B'ham are pretty much the same rep wise. If prestige is what you care about then Nottingham is a class above the other two, more of a borderline top 10 whilst the others are borderline top 20 IMHO, just my $00.2

Reply 5

jy9626

14

Sheffield, for Politics.
Nottingham and Birmingham politics don't appear to be as good, after looking at last year's and this year's Times rankings.

Reply 6

AfghanistanBananistan

6

jy9626

Sheffield, for Politics.
Nottingham and Birmingham politics don't appear to be as good, after looking at last year's and this year's Times rankings.

You need to realise that rankings mean didily squat, both generally and subject specific. As someone who did politics at Nottingham and knows about politics dept reps, Nottingham is the best of the three by some distance. Sheffield used to be good, but is slipping and Birmingham is nowhere near. Notts has really boosted its profile recently(top 10 in last RAE and the top teaching score), and the dept themselves, as well as other top ones, see Notts within the top 5-7 depts in the UK with the likes of St Andrews, Warwick, Aberwystwyth, LSE.

It now has the UK's best experts in ethnic conflict, UK Parliament, the Labour Party, Corruption and Intelligence. I cant really name any from Sheffield or Birmingham.

The only reason Notts politics in not ranked in the top 10 (it used to be) is because of the student satisfaction, and that is because Notts' politics dept is notoriously harsh for giving out first.

Reply 7

jy9626

14

AfghanistanBananistan

You need to realise that rankings mean didily squat, both generally and subject specific. As someone who did politics at Nottingham and knows about politics dept reps, Nottingham is the best of the three by some distance. Sheffield used to be good, but is slipping and Birmingham is nowhere near. Notts has really boosted its profile recently(top 10 in last RAE and the top teaching score), and the dept themselves, as well as other top ones, see Notts within the top 5-7 depts in the UK with the likes of St Andrews, Warwick, Aberwystwyth, LSE.

It now has the UK's best experts in ethnic conflict, UK Parliament, the Labour Party, Corruption and Intelligence. I cant really name any from Sheffield or Birmingham.

The only reason Notts politics in not ranked in the top 10 (it used to be) is because of the student satisfaction, and that is because Notts' politics dept is notoriously harsh for giving out first.

If Nottingham politics is so good, then why has it never been ranked under top 10 since 2007 Times rankings and 2005 Guardian rankings? while King's War Studies for instance, has always been ranked under top 10. Sheffield also hasn't gone out of top 10 since 2007 by times apparently.
(Only rankings since 2007 for Times and rankings since 2005 for Guardian were available on the internet.)
Yes. university subject rankings do change, but when certain universities stay within a certain range for long enough, it means that the universities are in that range.
When a university has been in top 10 just for a year and disappears, it means that as you say, the uni's position benefitted from the 'student satisfaction' thing and possibly was just lucky.

I don't know much about RAE, and don't really care about it at this stage either. Im not even sure if it really has such a great impact and influence on the undergrads.

Reply 8

Kitty Pimms

17

AfghanistanBananistan

You need to realise that rankings mean didily squat, both generally and subject specific. As someone who did politics at Nottingham and knows about politics dept reps, Nottingham is the best of the three by some distance. Sheffield used to be good, but is slipping and Birmingham is nowhere near. Notts has really boosted its profile recently(top 10 in last RAE and the top teaching score), and the dept themselves, as well as other top ones, see Notts within the top 5-7 depts in the UK with the likes of St Andrews, Warwick, Aberwystwyth, LSE.

I'm sure this post will probably come across as some sort of unhinged rant (no change there, then :p:

) but I've studied politics at both of the other two (after deciding not to go to Nottingham for undergrad) and I wouldn't describe either as being a significant distance behind by any stretch of the imagination. Certainly in my field Nottingham doesn't really have any specialists - although it is, from what I've seen, excellent in IR, conflict, security, etc. I certainly wouldn't knock the place, but if we're going to talk RAEs etc then Sheffield came joint first, so I'm not really sure where you get the idea that the department is 'slipping' from. Birmingham *did* slip dramatically in the last RAE - the assessment happened in the middle of a major bout of staff turnover, so it's no surprise - but for an undergrad I would say that the quality of education is much of a muchness at all three. Nottingham's MSci course looks wicked fun, but the standard politics course looks pretty similar to that at the other two.

Meh, I probably sound like I have a massive axe to grind here - I don't, I would advise the OP to go to whichever of the three he likes best, and given that one of them is politics and sociology that may well rule Sheffield out - but I personally haven't seen evidence of Nottingham being way above the other two, as a Europeanist. But that's just me.

Notts, defo.

From a purely academic perspective, Sheffield probably has the best Politics department.

Graduate prospects are harder to compare but all 3 universities have solid reputations.

Reply 11

River85

17

jy9626

If Nottingham politics is so good, then why has it never been ranked under top 10 since 2007 Times rankings and 2005 Guardian rankings?

You still haven't got the hang of this. They are just league tables. You can use them to show pretty much anything you want. The fact that they can vary year to year or newspaper by newspaper (often significantly) suggests that they are arbitary and not an accurate representation of departmental or university strength.

The Times league table doesn't even take teaching quality into account afaik which, in my opinion, is of massive importance to an undergraduate. More than student satisfaction, spending or maybe even the RAE (RAE scores that are out of date, certainly).

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again. Just because one department is "top ten" (or ranked in the top ten for two years) and the other is "top 20" it doesn't make the lower of the two worse. Take one "top ten" department, say Durham. Not the best example as it certainly isn't one of Durham's strongest departments (bordlerine top ten rather than top five or so like many of its other departments). Both have their different specialisms. Durham's more Middle East, East Asia and political thought (and is a growing school of IR. Nottingham is very strong in IR, security etc. But in research quality and teaching Nottingham certainly rivals Durham imo (it's stronger in teaching, certainly) and at least one other top ten department. But why does Durham still outrank Nottingham? Largely due to student satisfaction and maybe graduate prospects. But SS has always been dodgy and when it comes to graduate prospects, Nottingham is still a heavily targeted university. There can be a number of reasons why their grads don't enter graduate employment or further study immediately.

Please, please stop using league tables so literally. It only goes to show that you have no great knowledge of the UK's universities and the departments at them.

AfghanistanBananistan

You need to realise that rankings mean didily squat, both generally and subject specific. As someone who did politics at Nottingham and knows about politics dept reps, Nottingham is the best of the three by some distance. Sheffield used to be good, but is slipping and Birmingham is nowhere near. Notts has really boosted its profile recently(top 10 in last RAE and the top teaching score), and the dept themselves, as well as other top ones, see Notts within the top 5-7 depts in the UK with the likes of St Andrews, Warwick, Aberwystwyth, LSE.

I know Ilex has already covered this (she beat me to it! :p:

I knew I should've replied earlier yesterday evening) But where on earth do you get that from. The difference between them, at an undergraduate level at least, is negligible. I think that, overall, Sheffield is still stronger than the other two but all three are solid. Nottingham certainly isn't the best by some distance.

Sheffield is not in decline. 75% of its research is internationally excellent or world leading (i we're looking at world leading alone then it's 45%). This is a very strong performance indeed and places it above every all of the other departments in the country. I wouldn't even say Nottingham has a claim to top five to seven. Essex (maybe more postgrad), Aber, St Andrews, LSE, SOAS and Warwick are probably amongst the top seven or so strongest departments in the country in research and teaching (although the difference between SOAS and Warwick and the rest of the excellent departments isn't a great deal. But we can throw KCL and Oxford in there, above Nottingham.

All three are solid departments and they should provide an undergraduate with a good quality of education. What should be the deciding factor is, as always, course content (political science, IR etc.) and location.

Aaron Liuchang

i am an international student.i live in asia now .
i really don't know how to choice.
i don't know wchich is better .
can help me ? thank you !!!
undergrduate offer:
sheffield politics and Sociology
nottingham politics
birmingham politics

:eek3:

which is better ?
i am a boy
i want go to a place where can make many friend.i am afraid of lonely!
ithank you !!!

All three of the universities are large and based in big cities so there'll always be plenty of people around. Birmingham and Nottingham are campus based. This means they occupy their own self contained campus just outside or on the edge of the city so you arguably have an arguably stronger student/cummunity feel with Sheffield located in the city.

I wouldn't say studying politics and sociology will make you more appealing to an employer. Do you actually want to study sociology?

Reply 12

jy9626

14

River85

Please, please stop using league tables so literally. It only goes to show that you have no great knowledge of the UK's universities and the departments at them.

But seriously, some universities in certain subject tables are always, as far as i've seen, in top 10, just like how Oxbridge always are within the top 5 on the overall tables.

Reply 13

Aaron Liuchang

OP

thank you everyone!
my friend tell me the department of politics in sheffield is good.but the politics and Sociology program in the department isn't the main program.and the politics and Sociology maybe not good .

is it true?

Reply 14

Kitty Pimms

17

Aaron Liuchang

thank you everyone!
my friend tell me the department of politics in sheffield is good.but the politics and Sociology program in the department isn't the main program.and the politics and Sociology maybe not good .

is it true?

About right, that. The interactions I've had with the Sociology department have all been an unmitigated disaster...but really the main criteria should be whether it's what you want to study. I'm presuming it's not, and spending 3 years doing a subject you don't like for the sake of it isn't normally a great experience.

Reply 15

AfghanistanBananistan

6

There are alot of people here who are commenting, even though they know nothing of political study. They simply refer to rankings and perceived reputations. Let me defend what i said for a minute.

Firstly, granted i was a little harsh to say Notts was a lot better than Sheffield, but i was not wrong to say Sheffield is slipping, and i shall explain why. Politics tends to have fads where some fields (and there are lot of them) are popular. Sheffield has been incredibly strong because they used focus alot on European politics, with two of the main academics (Colin Hay and Ian Bache) there. This put them at the fore during the nineties when Euro studies were all the rage. However, nowadays IR and security studies, as well as political history are currently the most popular. This is where Sheffield is let down. They are not doing the popualar stuff at the moment.

All i am saying is that at Notts academics like Stephan Wolff, Wyn Rees, Richard Aldrich (who's just left), Steven Fielding, Neville Wylie, and Rod Thornton are publishing loads of stuff in the main journals on popular stuff- not to mention Phil Cowley, Andreas Biesler and other top academics there. They have also just introduced a new AAA offer MSci IR undergrad degree (the only one in the country) which has created a buzz in the field and attracting lots of applicants.

The IR field is the place to be at the moment, just like it was Pol Sci a few years ago, therefore LSE is the best (with Buzan, Cox and Brown), as well as Aberwystwyth and St Andrews. Kings has a weird reputation because it only does War Studies, and although it is immense at that, it is a small field of IR. Cambridge is not even very good for IR, even though most would just assume it is.

Sheffield, has a great all round quality - the RAE proved that, but it is just that its main academics are not doing the important stuff at the moment, with the RAE does not reflect, and this is why in my view it is slipping.

If you talk to actual academics they will tell you the departments which are doing all the important research at the moment and the ones with a buzz - and Nottingham would be one of them, along with the ones i mentioned above, as well as Warwick.

Anyways i dont need to defend Notts, i dont go there anymore and im doing an IR postgrad at the top place in Europe, all im saying is that i have my ear to the ground a little bit when it comes to what academics are saying.

Reply 16

Kitty Pimms

17

AfghanistanBananistan

This put them at the fore during the nineties when Euro studies were all the rage. However, nowadays IR and security studies, as well as political history are currently the most popular. This is where Sheffield is let down. They are not doing the popualar stuff at the moment.

Fair enough - I would agree with this, Sheffield is very understaffed in IR (which suits me fine since the Birmingham department started a massive hiring binge in IR in 2004 or so which reduced the currency of the political scientists in the department, which as IR doesn't interest me in the least wasn't all that marvellous). However, just because IR/Security is currently trendy doesn't mean it's better if IR isn't what you want to study. Birmingham has certain issues in that it was right at the cutting edge ten years or so, and then underwent enormous staff turnover between 2004 - 2008, which has changed the ethos of the place quite significantly (although the department is still huge and I suspect in the next few years it will budgeon further and regain a lot of ground).

Anyways i dont need to defend Notts, i dont go there anymore and im doing an IR postgrad at the top place in Europe, all im saying is that i have my ear to the ground a little bit when it comes to what academics are saying.

IR academics, anyway. :wink2:

Reply 17

River85

17

AfghanistanBananistan

There are alot of people here who are commenting, even though they know nothing of political study.

What, like a current politics student (me) and a masters student who is studying at Sheffield and has her undergraduate degree from Birmingham (Sheffield).

I don't deny that Sheffield isn't as strong in IR and I think Ilex will agree with that. But how does that mean its slipping or, generally speaking, offers inferior teaching and produces poor research than Sheffield?

IR may be the "in" topic at the moment but I fail to see how that means a university who isn't as strong in this area is an inferior all round politics department which is what you suggested. Even if IR is fashionable, it doesn't mean everyone wants to study it. Many prefer other areas, in which case Nottingham certainly isn't better. As all round departments, capable of providing quality undergraduate education, I believe all three are very good and more or less equals.

Back to sociology, I can't really say whether or not it is a strong department in Sheffield. I see Ilex has mentioned it, so take her wise words. But the real question is whether you actually want to study sociology. You've applied to single honours politics at the other two universities and this suggests that it's politics you really want to study. So remember that a joint degree with sociology will cue down on the politics content.

Reply 18

AfghanistanBananistan

6

River85

What, like a current politics student (me) and a masters student who is studying at Sheffield and has her undergraduate degree from Birmingham (Sheffield).

I don't deny that Sheffield isn't as strong in IR and I think Ilex will agree with that. But how does that mean its slipping or, generally speaking, offers inferior teaching and produces poor research than Sheffield?

IR may be the "in" topic at the moment but I fail to see how that means a university who isn't as strong in this area is an inferior all round politics department which is what you suggested. Even if IR is fashionable, it doesn't mean everyone wants to study it. Many prefer other areas, in which case Nottingham certainly isn't better. As all round departments, capable of providing quality undergraduate education, I believe all three are very good and more or less equals.

.

If you actually read what i way saying, as Ilex did, i am not saying Sheffield's quality is diminished, all i am saying is that it is not at the forefront of the current research, which it is not - therefore, noone is talking about it as much as they used to.

I mean how do you know what constitutes a good department anyway? - apart from looking at statistics like league tables and RAE which you seem to despise. The stats are rubbish anyway. If you took the RAE as gospal, depts like St Andrews and Kings would be seen as slipping because of their bad performance - but in the world of politics depts they are still at the fore because they are doing current fashionable research.

All it comes down to is word of mouth and the big name academics which matter and Sheffield does not have the buzz like LSE, Aber, Warwick and Notts do.

I think that is a fair comment.

Reply 19

River85

17

AfghanistanBananistan

If you actually read what i way saying, as Ilex did, i am not saying Sheffield's quality is diminished.

Well you did.

Sheffield used to be good, but is slipping.

You may not have meant it was slipping in quality, but you really need to chose your words more carefully and explain why you think Nottingham is better and also don't exaggerate any small difference.

If you actually read what I said then I said pretty much exactly the same thing as Ilex did. I appreciate it isn't as strong in IR. But I still don't see how that and the fact that because IR is trendy and Sheffield's lack of big names in IR, "people don't talk about it as much as they used to" makes it a poorer or less desirable department to study at. Especially for someone who isn't really interested in IR.

How do you tell a good department? Research quality (including academics) and quality of teaching mainly. Not perfect measurements but they are better than any league table which can distort the picture with student satisfaction. Maybe even contact hours and the amount of undergraduate support. Then a lot of it is subjective, the areas of the departments specialise in and course content for example.

help!!! Nottingham vs sheffield vs birmingham (politics)

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