Law League Tables and University Comparisons
Scroll to see replies
Lottelo
How is the Bradford law degree more applied then? I can't honestly see how it is any more relevant than a Oxbridge degree to a law firm.
Agreed its absolute rubbish. AT, law is incredibly elitist not only do you have to have a great degree from a great uni and the recruiters are very uni elitist. Also a law degree is standardised the unis set the way that the course is taught so there can be big differences in that respect but the core subjects have to be covered to have a qualifiying law degree so there is no way that a Bradford law degree can be more applied. You also have to have great A Levels too. Most of the bigger firms will simply reject your application if you have less than AAB in the modern A Level.
Law recruiters will actively seek graduates from Oxbridge they won't from Bradford its as simple as that. Also the fact that most Bradford law students won't have AAB would majorly count against them.
Ok alot of Ox students will go on into further education LLMs other education etc and that might effect the job score but an ox grad could be looking at a magic circle firm thus 20-30k+ start salary as a trainee, but the law society minimum which a Bradford student would be looking at is 14 ish k I believe. Plus ox students will generate plenty of barristers (the skys the limit salarywise) and its pretty safe to say that Bradford won't.
In short this league table is complete *******s. Its indefensible. Also I totally do not believe that Salford grads would earn on average more than St Andrews overall and Bolton more than Durham. The top recruiters actively visit Durham i know they don't for Bolton because I know people that have looked at that uni.
In addition although oxbridge has a lot of the older subjects it also has stuff like computer science etc. and a general degree from oxford would have a lot more clout than any degree from Bolton. i've done graduate recruitment and assessment centres and spoken to the other candidates that have been there and I'd estimate 90% are from redbrick unis.
AT82
I am talking about the wider subject ranges rather than a specific one. Bradford probably offers more vocational degrees than Oxbridge as a whole which will be of more benefit to employers rahter than studying lots of stuff which is only any use if you intend to become a researcher or somthing.
Surely in a law degree that idea that all qualifying law degrees have to include the same core modules invalidates that theory? It's not like Oxford only teaches Jurisprudence and Theory of Law...it does every bit as much civil and criminal law as Bradford, and then some...
AT82
I am talking about the wider subject ranges rather than a specific one. Bradford probably offers more vocational degrees than Oxbridge as a whole which will be of more benefit to employers rahter than studying lots of stuff which is only any use if you intend to become a researcher or somthing.
Have you done graduate recruitment. Almost all of the major graduate recruiters require a general degree rather than something specific, you can have a specific degree but it won't stand you in any better stead. Even for stuff, like business, accountancy, management, even some IT. The employers will train you. So the vocational nature of the degree does not mean a damn. There is no way in the world that a Bradford student would be more employable than an Oxford student or that they would start on a higher salary. Oxbridge is the elite thats why everyone wants it so much, do you really think it would be the pinnacle of our education system if its students were not among the most employable.
The only main areas where specific subject knowledge is really required are science and medicine jobs, law, engineering and some IT.
On a side note, I fail to see why Bradford is even included in the Guardian Law rankings at all, from a quick look at their website it appears that they will only teach the M100 Law course, as of 2005, thus implyign that not only are there any Bradford Law graduates, there aren't even any curent Bradford Law students at the minute...
Aj2003
I've seen Loughborough in that league table, and i'm pretty sure they don't offer Law. So i think that tells you something about the validity of that particular league table.
I think that sums up the quality of this year's Guardian League Tables quite nicely...oh well, I go by the Times league tables anyway, they place my university higher
Well that is the only assumption I can use to explain the starting salaries as a lot of traditional universities don't compare favorably, even TVU does a lot of better than some traditional universities.
I admit this Guardian league table appears flawed but some people here dismiss things for the sake of it. In theory there is no reason why Bradford can't be better for a certain subject than Oxbridge. Oxbridge is just generaly better, it dosn't mean its better for every subject.
I would not have been able to get my part time job if it wasn't for the specific degree I was doing for example.
I admit this Guardian league table appears flawed but some people here dismiss things for the sake of it. In theory there is no reason why Bradford can't be better for a certain subject than Oxbridge. Oxbridge is just generaly better, it dosn't mean its better for every subject.
I would not have been able to get my part time job if it wasn't for the specific degree I was doing for example.
AT82
Well that is the only assumption I can use to explain the starting salaries as a lot of traditional universities don't compare favorably, even TVU does a lot of better than some traditional universities.
I admit this Guardian league table appears flawed but some people here dismiss things for the sake of it. In theory there is no reason why Bradford can't be better for a certain subject than Oxbridge. Oxbridge is just generaly better, it dosn't mean its better for every subject.
I would not have been able to get my part time job if it wasn't for the specific degree I was doing for example.
I admit this Guardian league table appears flawed but some people here dismiss things for the sake of it. In theory there is no reason why Bradford can't be better for a certain subject than Oxbridge. Oxbridge is just generaly better, it dosn't mean its better for every subject.
I would not have been able to get my part time job if it wasn't for the specific degree I was doing for example.
Oxbridge wouldn't just be generally better it would be 99% better if not more. Bradford has one or two good subjects I believe politics and peace studies are very good but I haven't heard of any other. Oxbridge would be internationally renowned in almost every subject.
Also you hold your parttime job because you live in that area too don't you unless I'm mistaken you. Did you recruit against any oxbridge grads? You don't know that they wouldn't be able to better you
AT82
Well that is the only assumption I can use to explain the starting salaries as a lot of traditional universities don't compare favorably, even TVU does a lot of better than some traditional universities.
I admit this Guardian league table appears flawed but some people here dismiss things for the sake of it. In theory there is no reason why Bradford can't be better for a certain subject than Oxbridge. Oxbridge is just generaly better, it dosn't mean its better for every subject.
I would not have been able to get my part time job if it wasn't for the specific degree I was doing for example.
I admit this Guardian league table appears flawed but some people here dismiss things for the sake of it. In theory there is no reason why Bradford can't be better for a certain subject than Oxbridge. Oxbridge is just generaly better, it dosn't mean its better for every subject.
I would not have been able to get my part time job if it wasn't for the specific degree I was doing for example.
1) Name a subject in which Bradford is better than either Oxbidge or Cambridge (obviously, both institutions should offer the subject).
2) Show me eveidence that TVU, Bradford, etc grads have better starting salaries than those at Oxbridge and redbricks.
viviki
Oxbridge wouldn't just be generally better it would be 99% better if not more. Bradford has one or two good subjects I believe politics and peace studies are very good but I haven't heard of any other. Oxbridge would be internationally renowned in almost every subject.
Also you hold your parttime job because you live in that area too don't you unless I'm mistaken you. Did you recruit against any oxbridge grads? You don't know that they wouldn't be able to better you
Also you hold your parttime job because you live in that area too don't you unless I'm mistaken you. Did you recruit against any oxbridge grads? You don't know that they wouldn't be able to better you
This is not what I am I am saying, if the oxbridge undergraduate didn't know anything about web accessability and CSS then they would not have got the job. A lot of jobs require skills now, these kind of skills depend on where you went, Bradford undergraduates are likely to have different skills to those that went to Oxbridge so it really depends on what the employer wants.
Im many cases the Oxbridge candidates will be favoured but its not black and white, otherwise whats the point in universities other than Oxbridge?
muncrun
1) Name a subject in which Bradford is better than either Oxbidge or Cambridge (obviously, both institutions should offer the subject).
2) Show me eveidence that TVU, Bradford, etc grads have better starting salaries than those at Oxbridge and redbricks.
2) Show me eveidence that TVU, Bradford, etc grads have better starting salaries than those at Oxbridge and redbricks.
I am not sure specificaly for 1) but to simply say that Oxbridge is better for everything is pure snobbery.
2) I will get the evidence now, its on the Sunday Times league table, Bradford was just an example but I can show evidence that a lot of so called crap universities have higher starting saleries than many well regarded traditional universities.
I am not sure specificaly for 1) but to simply say that Oxbridge is better for everything is pure snobbery. - Absolute rubbish we are not saying that Oxbridge is better for every subject than every uni I'm sure that there are a few select unis who would give it a run for its money. However to say that somewhere like Bradford - hardly looking at well renowned uni here has better job prospects is ridiculous. Will you be saying tvu is better next??
AT82
I admit this Guardian league table appears flawed but some people here dismiss things for the sake of it. In theory there is no reason why Bradford can't be better for a certain subject than Oxbridge. Oxbridge is just generaly better, it dosn't mean its better for every subject.
I admit this Guardian league table appears flawed but some people here dismiss things for the sake of it. In theory there is no reason why Bradford can't be better for a certain subject than Oxbridge. Oxbridge is just generaly better, it dosn't mean its better for every subject.
In a previous post I analysed the methodology behind the Guardian table of job prospects. It is a very tenuous connection between what they "job prospects" and real job opportunities. What the guardian is measuring is % destinations, which is totally different from job prospects and doesn't at all measure the advantage a certain university will give in top level employment. I don't think I dismissed the table "for the sake of it"
Give me any creditable evidence that Bradford is any better than Oxbridge for law.
Dreama
Because there are jobs other than the best?
And that Oxbridge can't satisfy the demand for research and university education. The firms can't recruit everyone from Oxbridge!
I am not saying that Bradford is better than Oxbridge I am just saying for some subjects it might be.
I have never said Bradford is better than Oxbridge for law either its not what I am saying but you can't automaticaly dismiss the league tables either. Clearly the Guardian is wrong in the case of law but for other subjects it might be, especialy less than traditional ones.
When I first made these comments I forget this was in the law sub forum which may have caused some confusion.
Anyway the starting saleries
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8405-1246744,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8405-1246650,00.html
It shows that in general the better the university is the higher the starting salery but it also shows that this rule is very general. TVU beats many well established universities.
I have never said Bradford is better than Oxbridge for law either its not what I am saying but you can't automaticaly dismiss the league tables either. Clearly the Guardian is wrong in the case of law but for other subjects it might be, especialy less than traditional ones.
When I first made these comments I forget this was in the law sub forum which may have caused some confusion.
Anyway the starting saleries
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8405-1246744,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8405-1246650,00.html
It shows that in general the better the university is the higher the starting salery but it also shows that this rule is very general. TVU beats many well established universities.
Lottelo
In a previous post I analysed the methodology behind the Guardian table of job prospects. It is a very tenuous connection between what they "job prospects" and real job opportunities. What the guardian is measuring is % destinations, which is totally different from job prospects and doesn't at all measure the advantage a certain university will give in top level employment. I don't think I dismissed the table "for the sake of it"
Give me any creditable evidence that Bradford is any better than Oxbridge for law.
Give me any creditable evidence that Bradford is any better than Oxbridge for law.
I don't really want to add further flames to a growing fire, but it has to be said that The Guardian table is a nonsense. It's not even as though there's any consistency in regards to the "destinations" rating. Take last year, law at the LSE was rated 5/10 for destinations (outdone by TVU et al - who somehow managed to achieve 9/10!); and yet in the present table it has achieved a 9/10 rating.
2005 has obviously been a bumper year for hallucinogen use at The Guardian's HQ - there's no other viable explanation.
(Presuming you mean some would want no job at all...)Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Manchester vs London
- Which of these universities is best for law
- Is University of Law an actual university?
- St Andrews vs Oxbridge
- Universities for law with ABB offers
- Does anyone know how reliable the Guardian's 'Average UCAS Score' section is?
- QMUL vs University of Manchester Law
- Which uni is best for studying law?
- Creative Writing Master, Birmingham or Durham?
- Does the school you go to affect your GCSE’s?
- ucas rank or guardian rank
- Is UCL the best after Oxbridge?
- Durham university went downhill
- Do uni rankings matter
- Sheffield, Leeds or Leicester
- which 2 should i pick for law
- comparing unis
- Why is Lancaster University expensive than University of Nottingham
- Opinions on Sheffield Law
- Durham or Warwick
