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Law League Tables and University Comparisons

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    (Original post by xrxyxaxnx)
    ....obviously doesn't make a difference if UCL were no1 a couple of years ago haha

    I joke. I do find it interesting how the top 5 seem to switch about on this table quite a bit between years though - must just prove that there really isn't much difference in them
    Yeh, if you want anything approaching objectivity you need to average the given university's positions over the last 5 years or so. Still, there's only one column that's relevant to most law applicants.
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    Hello all,

    my question is that in that list Lawz stated, which one would be recognized by USA apart from Oxbridge, since when I get done with my undergraduate I am looking forward to go to Harvard or Princeton for post graduate... Since I am mainly looking to get a job there and live there then UK.
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    I tried to go through some of the pages of these discussions to find an answer, then realised that the earlier discussions would be outdated anyway.

    So, I have an unconditional from Manchester and I've been concerned that its ratings are quite low among league tables. I know I shouldn't pin everything on league tables as they're unreliable, so can anyone tell me what is Manchester's reputation amongst the general populace in the UK as well as among top notch employers. Also, what is the international opinion, will people recognise Manchester?

    The conditions on the student visa state that I must have a 20,000pounds/annum job once I graduate to be able to transfer my tier 4 visa to a tier2 employer sponsored visa, so how likely would I be to get such a job?

    If I turn Manchester down, I'd probably be heading to a liberal arts college in the US with the aim of pursuing a JD after that. Do you think Manchester is a better option?
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    Oh, and what are Manchester's credentials among top grad law schools, both in the UK and the US (I'm talking about places like Harvard, Yale, Oxbridge etc)
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    (Original post by d.luffy)
    Hello all,

    my question is that in that list Lawz stated, which one would be recognized by USA apart from Oxbridge, since when I get done with my undergraduate I am looking forward to go to Harvard or Princeton for post graduate... Since I am mainly looking to get a job there and live there then UK.
    I would focus on getting into A university for undergrad first before thinking about a post-grad at a top Ivy League. I'm fairly sure that Princeton doesn't even have a law school, so that rules that option out swiftly. Harvard is incredibly tough to get into; for the LLM you'd need to have a first and for the JD, you'd need similarly top academics plus a good score on your LSAT. I'd really do the research before you make sweeping statements about where you "are looking to go".
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    (Original post by jjo92)
    Oh, and what are Manchester's credentials among top grad law schools, both in the UK and the US (I'm talking about places like Harvard, Yale, Oxbridge etc)
    I can't talk about Manchester's international reputation at length. It is certainly one of the UK's larger universities and is noted for its top rated research in certain areas, so I assume it has a level of international cache. However, I can assure you that in the UK it is well-regarded. It is not an "elite" university in the same way that Oxbridge (or even UCL, LSE, Durham etc...) are but it is probably in the next "tier" down after those. I would tend to agree that Manchester often performs surprisingly poorly in league tables, but as you correctly point out, these are unreliable gauges of a university. I wouldn't let them disproportionately influence your decision. In any case, the weight that an employer will give to the "prestige" of a university is purely subjective and, particularly at law firms, will not be the "be all and end all".

    A job at a top law firm is well within your grasp if you go to Manchester. Aside from the fact that as a "brand" Manchester certainly won't hurt your application, employers will be interested in many other factors aside from the university you attended, such as: your performance at the interview/attendance day, commercial awareness, interest in their particular firm and long-standing commitment to the law (this is obviously a non-exhaustive list). It's impossible to make a precise quantification of your prospects of getting a job though; it's very much dependent on how your perform (as you can see). Regarding prospects of going to a top grad school; I don't know about the US, but in the UK, you would have every chance of going to Oxford or Cambridge provided that you came within the top 5-8% or so of your year group at Manchester. You can only put yourself in a position where you are able to apply, after this, you are very much in the lap of the gods.
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    (Original post by AdamTJ)
    I would focus on getting into A university for undergrad first before thinking about a post-grad at a top Ivy League. I'm fairly sure that Princeton doesn't even have a law school, so that rules that option out swiftly. Harvard is incredibly tough to get into; for the LLM you'd need to have a first and for the JD, you'd need similarly top academics plus a good score on your LSAT. I'd really do the research before you make sweeping statements about where you "are looking to go".
    Yes thank you, I am looking to apply in UK of course, but was just wondering.
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    (Original post by AdamTJ)
    I can't talk about Manchester's international reputation at length. It is certainly one of the UK's larger universities and is noted for its top rated research in certain areas, so I assume it has a level of international cache. However, I can assure you that in the UK it is well-regarded. It is not an "elite" university in the same way that Oxbridge (or even UCL, LSE, Durham etc...) are but it is probably in the next "tier" down after those. I would tend to agree that Manchester often performs surprisingly poorly in league tables, but as you correctly point out, these are unreliable gauges of a university. I wouldn't let them disproportionately influence your decision. In any case, the weight that an employer will give to the "prestige" of a university is purely subjective and, particularly at law firms, will not be the "be all and end all".

    A job at a top law firm is well within your grasp if you go to Manchester. Aside from the fact that as a "brand" Manchester certainly won't hurt your application, employers will be interested in many other factors aside from the university you attended, such as: your performance at the interview/attendance day, commercial awareness, interest in their particular firm and long-standing commitment to the law (this is obviously a non-exhaustive list). It's impossible to make a precise quantification of your prospects of getting a job though; it's very much dependent on how your perform (as you can see). Regarding prospects of going to a top grad school; I don't know about the US, but in the UK, you would have every chance of going to Oxford or Cambridge provided that you came within the top 5-8% or so of your year group at Manchester. You can only put yourself in a position where you are able to apply, after this, you are very much in the lap of the gods.

    Thank you very much for this reply, I think I have a basic idea of where Manchester stands now
    I'd just wondered if Manchester had some sort of stats for the starting pay for graduates of law...


    What would the range of pay for a fresh grad at a 'top law firm' be, and what about the not so 'top' firms?
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    (Original post by jjo92)
    Thank you very much for this reply, I think I have a basic idea of where Manchester stands now
    I'd just wondered if Manchester had some sort of stats for the starting pay for graduates of law...


    What would the range of pay for a fresh grad at a 'top law firm' be, and what about the not so 'top' firms?
    In London, the top UK (call them Magic Circle) firms pay its trainees (which is straight after the LPC) around £38,000~ in the first year, rising to £41,000~ in the second year of the training contract. Upon qualification this can rises to roughly £61,000~ and then each year after you qualify it rises significantly.

    (Clifford Chance, 3rd biggest Law firm in the world - http://www.rollonfriday.com/InsideIn...4/Default.aspx )

    However, US firms with offices in london pays it trainees about £5000 more in the trainee years than the UK ones, but upon qualification can rise to £92,000 - £100,000

    (Cleary Gottlieb, 21st biggest Law firm in the world - http://www.cgsh.com/careers/london/l...ningcontracts/ )


    These are the elite firms though, and are rigorous in the recruiting, with some US firms only taking on about 10 trainees a year AT MOST.


    There are plenty of other City based firms, which pay equally as well but aren't as competitive, but competitive nonetheless, such as Hogan Lovells, Ashurst, DLA, Eversheds....
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    (Original post by d.luffy)
    Hello all,

    my question is that in that list Lawz stated, which one would be recognized by USA apart from Oxbridge, since when I get done with my undergraduate I am looking forward to go to Harvard or Princeton for post graduate... Since I am mainly looking to get a job there and live there then UK.
    Wow, that is ambitious! Most would be happy with just Oxbridge or Ivy League. Going for both would be amazing. Your academics would need to be outstanding. Also, i think Ivy League uni's require lots of extra-curricular stuff.
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    (Original post by matt1291)
    In London, the top UK (call them Magic Circle) firms pay its trainees (which is straight after the LPC) around £38,000~ in the first year, rising to £41,000~ in the second year of the training contract. Upon qualification this can rises to roughly £61,000~ and then each year after you qualify it rises significantly.

    (Clifford Chance, 3rd biggest Law firm in the world - http://www.rollonfriday.com/InsideIn...4/Default.aspx )

    However, US firms with offices in london pays it trainees about £5000 more in the trainee years than the UK ones, but upon qualification can rise to £92,000 - £100,000

    (Cleary Gottlieb, 21st biggest Law firm in the world - http://www.cgsh.com/careers/london/l...ningcontracts/ )


    These are the elite firms though, and are rigorous in the recruiting, with some US firms only taking on about 10 trainees a year AT MOST.


    There are plenty of other City based firms, which pay equally as well but aren't as competitive, but competitive nonetheless, such as Hogan Lovells, Ashurst, DLA, Eversheds....
    Thanks for this info! What, then , about those not in the City?
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    I just got accepted into Nottingham for the llm in environmental law, anyone have any experience or knowledge of the course? Also is the course/uni fairly well regarded in England???
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    (Original post by seaweedhead)
    I just got accepted into Nottingham for the llm in environmental law, anyone have any experience or knowledge of the course? Also is the course/uni fairly well regarded in England???
    What scores did you obtain in A levels? if you mind me ask.
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    Hi, I didnt do the A levels im actually Irish... I have two degrees from very well respected Irish uni's though...
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    Hi guys, I recently graduated from a not too good law school and was lucky to get into warwick
    just wanna know how good is it? is it better than nottingham or ucl (which rejected me )

    Thanks a bunch x
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    (Original post by Amzeey1)
    Hi guys, I recently graduated from a not too good law school and was lucky to get into warwick
    just wanna know how good is it? is it better than nottingham or ucl (which rejected me )

    Thanks a bunch x
    I don't think it approaches UCL. The comparison with Nottingham could go any number of ways depending on who you ask, but it's in a similar tier.
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    Thanks turbocretin

    Yeah i thought so too. i was really bummed about rejection and ontop they didnt give me feedback on why i was unsuccessful.. got a rude email sayin they wouldnt luk at my app 2wice over!!

    u reckon how many yrs i hv to take out to get in? im happy with warwick but i wanna aim to get the best uni if u know wht i mean

    + is it law dep really top 20 and not top 10..? thnk x
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    I'm an international student from Nigeria,and I applied into kcl,Ucl,Warwick and Swansea to study LLM.I was rejected in kcl because my first degree isn't law.but I got admission into Swansea to study international commercial and maritime law and also into Warwick to study international economic law. But I'm quite confused as Warwick is 8 on the league table and Swansea is 25 but I really like international commercial and maritime law and if I would be going to Warwick,I would only go because it ranks higher.pls advice me.tanks.
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    (Original post by Abee22)
    I'm an international student from Nigeria,and I applied into kcl,Ucl,Warwick and Swansea to study LLM.I was rejected in kcl because my first degree isn't law.but I got admission into Swansea to study international commercial and maritime law and also into Warwick to study international economic law. But I'm quite confused as Warwick is 8 on the league table and Swansea is 25 but I really like international commercial and maritime law and if I would be going to Warwick,I would only go because it ranks higher.pls advice me.tanks.
    If you plan to practice commercial and maritime law then go to Swansea. However, if that is not the case then go to Warwick; it's significantly above Swansea in the league tables/reputation.
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    Just a quick q.. what does mitigating factors mean? btw ucl is really hard to get into although i think warwick is fantastic uni

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