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Israel's Independence Day

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    Today is Israel's independence day.

    We celebrate it according to the Hebrew calendar, so it doesn't coincide with the Gregorian date.

    So I just want to congratulate my fellow Israeli's on TSR (not so many of them, but still).

    Don't eat too many kebabs, or you won't make it to next year!

    Am Yisrael Khai!
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    Since when has Israel been independent?

    If it wasn't for the West it wouldn't exist
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    (Original post by Mr. Orange)
    Since when has Israel been independent?
    Since 1948.
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    'Am Yisrael Chai' No?

    (Original post by Mr. Orange)
    Since when has Israel been independent?
    Since 1948.

    If it wasn't for the West it wouldn't exist.
    And... How is that related to the previous point? Without the West there would be no USA, etc...
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    For anybody who wants to rain on my parade: please do it on the generic Israel/Palestine thread.
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    kol hakavod. yafe she yesh israelim aherim po hutz memeni!
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    My point was that Israel gets a lot of arms from the West, thus not making it an independent faction of its own.

    If it didn't get those arms, the area would be mostly Muslim, not Jewish.
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    (Original post by Mr. Orange)
    My point was that Israel gets a lot of arms from the West, thus not making it an independent faction of its own.

    If it didn't get those arms, the area would be mostly Muslim, not Jewish.
    Truly bizarre. I can't decide which is more curious, your lack of knowledge or the fact that you seem strangely proud of it.
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    The idea is tinged with a bit of bitterness for me, not as a result of what happened - I've got nothing against Israel - but rather by what could have been.

    White Paper of 1939 ftw.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    The idea is tinged with a bit of bitterness for me, not as a result of what happened - I've got nothing against Israel - but rather by what could have been.

    White Paper of 1939 ftw.
    There wouldn't be peace unfortunately. The radical Palestinians such as Hamas (and lots on this forum) won't be happy until there are no Jews living there at all and Palestinians have full sovereignty. The Palestinians rejected Partition Plan, remember. Never willing to compromise at all = no peace.
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    Unfortunately, given recent events and its likely future, I think any celebration of Israel's Independence Day must be muted. Israel must make some important decisions surrounding its existence - ones that its current leaders seem unwilling to make - before Israelis will be able to properly celebrate Independence Day.

    Perhaps a glass of lemonade for the celebration then, rather than champagne.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    Unfortunately, given recent events and its likely future, I think any celebration of Israel's Independence Day must be muted. Israel must make some important decisions surrounding its existence - ones that its current leaders seem unwilling to make - before Israelis will be able to properly celebrate Independence Day.

    Perhaps a glass of lemonade for the celebration then, rather than champagne.
    No. Israel's enemies have to make important decisions. They have to accept the State of Israel because it will never go away.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    Unfortunately, given recent events and its likely future, I think any celebration of Israel's Independence Day must be muted. Israel must make some important decisions surrounding its existence - ones that its current leaders seem unwilling to make - before Israelis will be able to properly celebrate Independence Day.

    Perhaps a glass of lemonade for the celebration then, rather than champagne.
    You don't REALLY expect Israel to ask you what to do on it's birthday, do you?
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    Unfortunately, given recent events and its likely future, I think any celebration of Israel's Independence Day must be muted. Israel must make some important decisions surrounding its existence - ones that its current leaders seem unwilling to make - before Israelis will be able to properly celebrate Independence Day.

    Perhaps a glass of lemonade for the celebration then, rather than champagne.


    Interesting assertion. So according to this, do you deem the UK and US unworthy of celebrating their own national day's due to their past and present misdeeds? It seems that for every country in the world, it's existance is a given and its independance something it can rightfully celebrate, even countries that are infinately worse in their human rights record than Israel, yet in our case, we arnt even allowed to lift our head up high on independance day because of real or imagined misdeeds.

    Shamefull and hypocritical.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    The idea is tinged with a bit of bitterness for me, not as a result of what happened - I've got nothing against Israel - but rather by what could have been.

    White Paper of 1939 ftw.


    The white paper was far from fair.
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    (Original post by coren111)
    No. Israel's enemies have to make important decisions. They have to accept the State of Israel because it will never go away.
    Israel's "enemies" have to make important decisions, of course, but that does not mean that Israel doesn't have important existential choices as well. When you have to make choices that will have a revolutionary impact on your current existence, any celebrations of that troubled current existence must naturally be muted.

    (Original post by Axes)
    Interesting assertion. So according to this, do you deem the UK and US unworthy of celebrating their own national day's due to their past and present misdeeds? It seems that for every country in the world, it's existance is a given and its independance something it can rightfully celebrate, even countries that are infinately worse in their human rights record than Israel, yet in our case, we arnt even allowed to lift our head up high on independance day because of real or imagined misdeeds.

    Shamefull and hypocritical.
    If you aren't willing to read my arguments carefully then you might want to have the decency not to then descend to strong attacks on my character. Israel is at the point of having to make revolutionary decisions about his future existence - ones that its leaders seem unwilling to address - while other countries are more stable. As I said, when you have a troubled existence, and when your future existence will be of a greatly changed nature, wild celebrations of your independent existence are perhaps premature and unnecessary. That is not to say that there should not be celebrations, merely that any celebrations should be restrained, thoughtful, and mindful of the future.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    Israel's "enemies" have to make important decisions, of course, but that does not mean that Israel doesn't have important existential choices as well. When you have to make choices that will have a revolutionary impact on your current existence, any celebrations of that troubled current existence must naturally be muted.

    If you aren't willing to read my arguments carefully then you might want to have the decency not to then descend to strong attacks on my character. Israel is at the point of having to make revolutionary decisions about his future existence - ones that its leaders seem unwilling to address - while other countries are more stable. As I said, when you have a troubled existence, and when your future existence will be of a greatly changed nature, wild celebrations of your independent existence are perhaps premature and unnecessary. That is not to say that there should not be celebrations, merely that any celebrations should be restrained, thoughtful, and mindful of the future.
    What existential questions must the Israeli government make? Do we want to continue to exist??? You must be in cloud cuckoo land.
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    Yom Ha-atzmaut Sameach!

    Am Yisrael Chai!!
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    If you aren't willing to read my arguments carefully then you might want to have the decency not to then descend to strong attacks on my character. Israel is at the point of having to make revolutionary decisions about his future existence - ones that its leaders seem unwilling to address - while other countries are more stable.

    Your words were pretty straight forward, and I did not misinterpet them. Israel being 'more' or 'less' stable doesnt give it any less of a right to celebrate its independence day. All the more, due to its precarious position, we have more than a right to celebrate our continued existance. Many countries have hard choices to make, with regards to their own or other countries futures. The US had to make a hard choice with regards to Iraq's existance, and its choice cost far more lives than the sum of Israel's actions during its 61 years of existance, yet no one questions the US's right to celebrate on the 4th of July.




    As I said, when you have a troubled existence, and when your future existence will be of a greatly changed nature, wild celebrations of your independent existence are perhaps premature and unnecessary.


    Israel's celebrations are no more wild than any other country. Even if you accept the worst accusations thrown against Israel, many many countries are far worse currently or were in the past. This does not negate from our inherrant right to celebrate our independance, so get off your high horse.
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    (Original post by borismor)
    Today is Israel's independence day.

    We celebrate it according to the Hebrew calendar, so it doesn't coincide with the Gregorian date.

    So I just want to congratulate my fellow Israeli's on TSR (not so many of them, but still).

    Don't eat too many kebabs, or you won't make it to next year!

    Am Yisrael Khai!
    Sad day, sad day, sad days.
Updated: April 30, 2009
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