Israel's Independence Day
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Re: Israel's Independence DayIsrael must decide between a one-state and a two-state solution. Realistically, a one-state solution would eventually lead to the loss of the founding idea of a Jewish state. A two-state solution would lead to the cessation of more land than many Israelis would like to give up, and would lead to the situation where Israel would have to get to grips with an autonomous Palestinian state on its boarders. PM Netanyahu has traditionally been opposed to the two-state solution, but he (and most Israeli Jews) would find it hard to fully accept the destruction of the ideal that will be brought about by a one-state solution.(Original post by coren111)
What existential questions must the Israeli government make? Do we want to continue to exist??? You must be in cloud cuckoo land.
These are important existential questions that give Israelis much to think about on Independence Day, when they celebrate their current (but temporary) existence. -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayWhile I agree to a certain extent (I deplored Israeli actions in the recent conflict), I don't think thats a reason not to celebrate independence day if they want to. Like it or not, they are independent.(Original post by Kolya)
Israel must decide between a one-state and a two-state solution. Realistically, a one-state solution would eventually lead to the loss of the founding idea of a Jewish state. A two-state solution would lead to the cessation of more land than many Israelis would like to give up, and would lead to the situation where Israel would have to get to grips with an autonomous Palestinian state on its boarders. PM Netanyahu has traditionally been opposed to the two-state solution, but he (and most Israeli Jews) would find it hard to fully accept the destruction of the ideal that will be brought about by a one-state solution.
These are important existential questions that give Israelis much to think about on Independence Day, when they celebrate their current (but temporary) existence. -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayI say that on this historic day we should take a look at what Israel has accomplished:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcHwyW9xOyI
http://www.e-bski.org/Israel/israel-accomplishments.htm
http://www.factsandlogic.org/outstanding_accomp.html -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayA lot of people on TSR seem to have this view on BN, but what is this view really based on? As a matter of fact, he did deliver Hebron and other territories to Palestinian control, and he did meet with Arafat. He also stated several times, and I've heard it with my own ears, that he does support a two state solution. His conditions are different from those of the Labor party, however judging by history he has a better chance at actually achieving peace rather than just talk about it.(Original post by Kolya)
Israel must decide between a one-state and a two-state solution. Realistically, a one-state solution would eventually lead to the loss of the founding idea of a Jewish state. A two-state solution would lead to the cessation of more land than many Israelis would like to give up, and would lead to the situation where Israel would have to get to grips with an autonomous Palestinian state on its boarders. PM Netanyahu has traditionally been opposed to the two-state solution, but he (and most Israeli Jews) would find it hard to fully accept the destruction of the ideal that will be brought about by a one-state solution.
These are important existential questions that give Israelis much to think about on Independence Day, when they celebrate their current (but temporary) existence. -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayHuh? The current state of its existence most certainly is temporary - I think we can all agree on that. It must eventually alter its existence as part of the peace process, for the current conflict cannot continue forever (and the international community will gradually force the hand of the two parties to make suer that it does not continue).(Original post by coren111)
Fixed. -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayOh great.(Original post by coren111)
No. Israel's enemies have to make important decisions. They have to accept the State of Israel because it will never go away.
So you would accept continuous attacks from Hamas if they "will never go away".
FFS Hamas have said that they"ve noticed Israel exists LOL
they just don"t say it has the right to exist. Which, imho, it doesn"t.
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Re: Israel's Independence Day(Original post by coren111)
There wouldn't be peace unfortunately. The radical Palestinians such as Hamas (and lots on this forum) won't be happy until there are no Jews living there at all and Palestinians have full sovereignty. The Palestinians rejected Partition Plan, remember. Never willing to compromise at all = no peace.
the palestinians shouldn't have had to have 'settled' for what was in the partition plan: the land was and still is rightfully their's
it would be like the UN coming here, to the UK and saying, "right, we're giving half your land to the jews....what? you don't like that? fine then, we'll take all your land" -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayFunny that there were more than 10% Jews living in Palestine before any Palestinians got remotely bothered about it. That"s one in ten people. Historically, Palestinians have nothing against Jews living in the Palestinian homeland, even in significant numbers. They do take issue with them taking their land and their sovereignty over it away, then bombing and controlling the rest of Palestine when they try to retaliate.(Original post by coren111)
The radical Palestinians such as Hamas (and lots on this forum) won't be happy until there are no Jews living there at all and Palestinians have full sovereignty.
Peace x -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayReally? The Ottoman's didn't think so. All of a sudden it's theirs?(Original post by Barden)
the palestinians shouldn't have had to have 'settled' for what was in the partition plan: the land was and still is rightfully their's
No it wouldn't, because prior to 48 Jews settled on land that was purchased legally.it would be like the UN coming here, to the UK and saying, "right, we're giving half your land to the jews....what? you don't like that? fine then, we'll take all your land" -
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Re: Israel's Independence Day(Original post by borismor)
No it wouldn't, because prior to 48 Jews settled on land that was purchased legally.
lol......the arabs outnumbered the jews 8/1 in 1948, why should they give up sovereignty over 1/2 of their land?
just because someone owns land in a country, it doesn't make them the rightful sovereign of a micronation within that land, so why should a few jews who bought some land in palestine have sovereignty over their land, plus the rest of the nation? -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayThat's a myth. Palestinian hostilities started in the 20's.(Original post by bj_945)
Funny that there were more than 10% Jews living in Palestine before any Palestinians got remotely bothered about it. That"s one in ten people. Historically, Palestinians have nothing against Jews living in the Palestinian homeland, even in significant numbers.
Peace x
A land which is not legally owned or used by Palestinians cannot be considered "Palestinian". It was not Palestinian during the British mandate nor was it during the Ottoman rule.They do take issue with them taking their land and their sovereignty over it away, then bombing and controlling the rest of Palestine when they try to retaliate.
Every Palestinian has a right to a land which he legally owns or lives on, but not on deserted and uninhibited malaria stricken marsh lands which all of a sudden becomes his "home land" after it's dried and made habitable by Jews.
Jews wanted to have sovereignty over the land in which they settled and worked, which is completely fair. -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayFor one simple reason - they never had any sovereignty in the first place,(Original post by Barden)
lol......the arabs outnumbered the jews 8/1 in 1948, why should they give up sovereignty over 1/2 of their land?
so there's nothing to give up. Palestine was never a sovereign state.
Being outnumbered at the time doesn't really count for anything because it took just 3 years for Israel's population to double itself since it's establishment, plus Palestinian have Jordan, which is their TRUE homeland.
It does when there's no other sovereign entity, and prior to 48 the only sovereign entity happened to be British. After they left - everything is open to negotiations.just because someone owns land in a country, it doesn't make them the rightful sovereign of a micronation within that land, so why should a few jews who bought some land in palestine have sovereignty over their land, plus the rest of the nation? -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayEven if that were true, there were still ~10% Jews in the 1910s (off top of my head). If you mean late 20"s it would be well over 10% before hostilities started.(Original post by borismor)
That's a myth. Palestinian hostilities started in the 20's.
Right, so what makes a land belong to a people who live there and have for centuries is the fact that other nations have noticed that they live there and have done for centuries and recognise their government? Just because the Brits had control over it doesn"t mean it wasn"t Palestinian land. They had lived there for centuries, whether or not they were in power it was still theirs unless you believe colonialism is just great!!!!A land which is not legally owned or used by Palestinians cannot be considered "Palestinian". It was not Palestinian during the British mandate nor was it during the Ottoman rule.
They were barely even in a majority in the half of the land they took (55:45). Whereas the Palestinian side was 99:1. So even if we both agree land should be split up to groups according to how many live there right then (ridiculous imo) I take it you would agree the Jews got given too much?Jews wanted to have sovereignty over the land in which they settled and worked, which is completely fair. -
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Re: Israel's Independence DayFunny because the last time I checked, Israeli passports have been accepted by nearly every single country, They have a diplomatic legitamant government recognised and had relations with every single world country, They are currently recognised by a majority of UN members, The processor for the computer you are using is likely to have been designed and created by someone calling themselves an Israeli, Israel is on the world map, They have a currency, stamps, economy, miltary, citizens. I can say the same or nearly the same for every single other country but, I can't for Palestine so why doesn't Israel exist.(Original post by blackandgold)
isreal has never had independence and never will becasue the palestinians will always be there... actualy... the existance of isreal is worth questioning.
and stop making music....please.
