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Becoming dual UK/US qualifed; Working in the US
I've currently got a TC with a magic-circle firm, but I would very much like to work in the US at some point in the near future
I'd love to hear your experiences if you or someone you know:
1) Managed to get a job as an attorney (or similar) in the US
2) Had the opportunity to work in the US through a American firm in London
3) Is dual-qualified
4) Had the opportunity/seriously considered working in the US as an attorney or similar
If thats you, or if you know anyone who fits that bill, please direct them towards this topic! Rep available!
I'm very tempted to become dual-qualified in the five months I have off during my LPC year with someone like http://www.clt.co.uk/New%20York%20Bar
Has anyone done this and can comment on whether its worth doing?
I'm aware of the difficulties associated with getting a green-card
I'd love to hear your experiences if you or someone you know:
1) Managed to get a job as an attorney (or similar) in the US
2) Had the opportunity to work in the US through a American firm in London
3) Is dual-qualified
4) Had the opportunity/seriously considered working in the US as an attorney or similar
If thats you, or if you know anyone who fits that bill, please direct them towards this topic! Rep available!
I'm very tempted to become dual-qualified in the five months I have off during my LPC year with someone like http://www.clt.co.uk/New%20York%20Bar
Has anyone done this and can comment on whether its worth doing?
I'm aware of the difficulties associated with getting a green-card
I have note worked as an attorney but I do live here under a green card so I can probably give you some info on living here in general.
There really is no two ways about it, living in the US, providing you have money (which you will as an attorney), has a huge number of benefits over living in the UK. For a start there are no chavs which is always delightful. Your taxes will be MUCH less then in the UK but don't forget you will be paying both federal and state taxes although depending which state you settle for you may not have to pay state tax. Houses are much bigger and cheaper, in fact everything in general is cheaper. That being said most people seem to eat out, the food available in supermarkets, is in my opinion, *****.
Do you plan to live in NY? Unless you live fairly out in the boonies your going to be paying huge amounts for everything, most of the people I know who work in Manhattan live in NJ, on the hobokan train line which is about a 15 minute ride into the city.
If you have any other questions about living here I can answer them
There really is no two ways about it, living in the US, providing you have money (which you will as an attorney), has a huge number of benefits over living in the UK. For a start there are no chavs which is always delightful. Your taxes will be MUCH less then in the UK but don't forget you will be paying both federal and state taxes although depending which state you settle for you may not have to pay state tax. Houses are much bigger and cheaper, in fact everything in general is cheaper. That being said most people seem to eat out, the food available in supermarkets, is in my opinion, *****.
Do you plan to live in NY? Unless you live fairly out in the boonies your going to be paying huge amounts for everything, most of the people I know who work in Manhattan live in NJ, on the hobokan train line which is about a 15 minute ride into the city.
If you have any other questions about living here I can answer them
Lord_Farquad
...
Thanks for that
I am intending to get qualified in New York as this is much more useful internationally than Californian law. Though I would probably prefer to actually work in Cali or Georgia than in New York, if I can manage to get a green card
Out of interest, how did you manage to get your green card? And how have you found the people?
Not sure how helpful this is, but at the US firm that I VSed at last year there seemed to be quite a significant number of associates who had taken the NY Bar Exam after they'd qualified. It seemed as if they were actively encouraged to do it, and I think that the firm probably paid the fees. So if you don't manage to do it before you start your TC you could probably jump ship to a US firm a couple of years down the line and then get dual qualified. Apparently taking the actual exam is quite an experience as some of it takes place outside NYC so there's a mad rush on the morning of the exam with all the candidates travelling upstate to some big Stadium full of desks and there are literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people taking it in the same place.
Good to know, thanks
To be honest, I would be happy with the TC, expecially at a magic circle firm. I am considering the New York Bar but because I am having trouble finding a TC or VS even though I am on my way to a 1st, have experience and good A Levels and I am doing a masters next year.
I see it as an alternative and a better one at that!
I see it as an alternative and a better one at that!
superriz18
To be honest, I would be happy with the TC, expecially at a magic circle firm. I am considering the New York Bar but because I am having trouble finding a TC or VS even though I am on my way to a 1st, have experience and good A Levels and I am doing a masters next year.
I see it as an alternative and a better one at that!
I see it as an alternative and a better one at that!
I'm no expert, but from what I gather you would realistically have to do a TC in the city first.
According to the research I've done, there are two big things which would stop you getting a job in the US straight away.
One, is the way that US firms work. In the US, people have done a post-graduate JD degree, so have studied for a lot longer than UK people. Also, the JD teaches you practical aspects, which is why you don't need TCs in the US. This means you can't realistically get a job in the US straight away without having a couple years experience.
Second, the visa is a big issue. Passing the bar exam just qualifies you to practice in New York, it doesn't qualify you to live there. Unless you marry a US citizen or have a spare $500,000 to invest in a government scheme, its very difficult to get a visa. Finding a job directly in the US would mean you have to use a H1-B visa. A US firm would have to show that there is no American to do the job, and that you have exceptional talent, and even then there is no guarantee you would get it because there is a quota: this is very costly and time-consuming for the firm. Working at a US firm in London and then getting an intra-company transfer is a much much easier route from what I gather.
jacketpotato
I'm no expert, but from what I gather you would realistically have to do a TC in the city first.
According to the research I've done, there are two big things which would stop you getting a job in the US straight away.
One, is the way that US firms work. In the US, people have done a post-graduate JD degree, so have studied for a lot longer than UK people. Also, the JD teaches you practical aspects, which is why you don't need TCs in the US. This means you can't realistically get a job in the US straight away without having a couple years experience.
Second, the visa is a big issue. Passing the bar exam just qualifies you to practice in New York, it doesn't qualify you to live there. Unless you marry a US citizen or have a spare $500,000 to invest in a government scheme, its very difficult to get a visa. Finding a job directly in the US would mean you have to use a H1-B visa. A US firm would have to show that there is no American to do the job, and that you have exceptional talent, and even then there is no guarantee you would get it because there is a quota: this is very costly and time-consuming for the firm. Working at a US firm in London and then getting an intra-company transfer is a much much easier route from what I gather.
According to the research I've done, there are two big things which would stop you getting a job in the US straight away.
One, is the way that US firms work. In the US, people have done a post-graduate JD degree, so have studied for a lot longer than UK people. Also, the JD teaches you practical aspects, which is why you don't need TCs in the US. This means you can't realistically get a job in the US straight away without having a couple years experience.
Second, the visa is a big issue. Passing the bar exam just qualifies you to practice in New York, it doesn't qualify you to live there. Unless you marry a US citizen or have a spare $500,000 to invest in a government scheme, its very difficult to get a visa. Finding a job directly in the US would mean you have to use a H1-B visa. A US firm would have to show that there is no American to do the job, and that you have exceptional talent, and even then there is no guarantee you would get it because there is a quota: this is very costly and time-consuming for the firm. Working at a US firm in London and then getting an intra-company transfer is a much much easier route from what I gather.
How likely is a intra company transfer?
superriz18
To be honest, I would be happy with the TC, expecially at a magic circle firm. I am considering the New York Bar but because I am having trouble finding a TC or VS even though I am on my way to a 1st, have experience and good A Levels and I am doing a masters next year.
I see it as an alternative and a better one at that!
I see it as an alternative and a better one at that!
Wow, are there any deficiencies in your applications? Eg are you at a good uni with experience + extra currics?
jacketpotato
I'm no expert, but from what I gather you would realistically have to do a TC in the city first.
According to the research I've done, there are two big things which would stop you getting a job in the US straight away.
One, is the way that US firms work. In the US, people have done a post-graduate JD degree, so have studied for a lot longer than UK people. Also, the JD teaches you practical aspects, which is why you don't need TCs in the US. This means you can't realistically get a job in the US straight away without having a couple years experience.
Second, the visa is a big issue. Passing the bar exam just qualifies you to practice in New York, it doesn't qualify you to live there. Unless you marry a US citizen or have a spare $500,000 to invest in a government scheme, its very difficult to get a visa. Finding a job directly in the US would mean you have to use a H1-B visa. A US firm would have to show that there is no American to do the job, and that you have exceptional talent, and even then there is no guarantee you would get it because there is a quota: this is very costly and time-consuming for the firm. Working at a US firm in London and then getting an intra-company transfer is a much much easier route from what I gather.
According to the research I've done, there are two big things which would stop you getting a job in the US straight away.
One, is the way that US firms work. In the US, people have done a post-graduate JD degree, so have studied for a lot longer than UK people. Also, the JD teaches you practical aspects, which is why you don't need TCs in the US. This means you can't realistically get a job in the US straight away without having a couple years experience.
Second, the visa is a big issue. Passing the bar exam just qualifies you to practice in New York, it doesn't qualify you to live there. Unless you marry a US citizen or have a spare $500,000 to invest in a government scheme, its very difficult to get a visa. Finding a job directly in the US would mean you have to use a H1-B visa. A US firm would have to show that there is no American to do the job, and that you have exceptional talent, and even then there is no guarantee you would get it because there is a quota: this is very costly and time-consuming for the firm. Working at a US firm in London and then getting an intra-company transfer is a much much easier route from what I gather.
A H1-B visa allows a lawyer to work for 6 years in the US. I have checked with the US embassy, who did not mention the requirement of a firm showing that I can do a job no American lawyer can. Providing they sponsor my application, there is little difficulty in obtaining the visa. But I agree the best option is an intra-company transfer.
Conkermon
Wow, are there any deficiencies in your applications? Eg are you at a good uni with experience + extra currics?
Thats the thing, I dont know. The firms that have rejected me say they do not go into details for rejection. The university's career service is weird as well. For example, I like several opinions on my work before I hand it in and thus I showed my cover letter to three different careers advisors. ! said it was not good at all and the other 2 said it was very good and they cannot advise any changes. Contrast this with the 1 who said my cover letter was crap said my CV is one of the best she has seen, with the amount of experience I have but the 2 who said my letter was good said my CV was too blandand long even though it stops at 2 pages, the recommended amount. I respect people have different opinions but that was ridiculous. I am hoping UCL, where I am doing my masters has better services.
Several of my friends have TC's at firms like Halliwells, Clifford Chance, K&G and they have given some feedback to my apps so gotta check that out after final year exams.
But to answer your question, there has to be otherwise I would have gotten a TC by now. I will have to soldier on.
superriz18
Thats the thing, I dont know. The firms that have rejected me say they do not go into details for rejection. The university's career service is weird as well. For example, I like several opinions on my work before I hand it in and thus I showed my cover letter to three different careers advisors. ! said it was not good at all and the other 2 said it was very good and they cannot advise any changes. Contrast this with the 1 who said my cover letter was crap said my CV is one of the best she has seen, with the amount of experience I have but the 2 who said my letter was good said my CV was too blandand long even though it stops at 2 pages, the recommended amount. I respect people have different opinions but that was ridiculous. I am hoping UCL, where I am doing my masters has better services.
Several of my friends have TC's at firms like Halliwells, Clifford Chance, K&G and they have given some feedback to my apps so gotta check that out after final year exams.
But to answer your question, there has to be otherwise I would have gotten a TC by now. I will have to soldier on.
Several of my friends have TC's at firms like Halliwells, Clifford Chance, K&G and they have given some feedback to my apps so gotta check that out after final year exams.
But to answer your question, there has to be otherwise I would have gotten a TC by now. I will have to soldier on.
superriz18
A H1-B visa allows a lawyer to work for 6 years in the US. I have checked with the US embassy, who did not mention the requirement of a firm showing that I can do a job no American lawyer can. Providing they sponsor my application, there is little difficulty in obtaining the visa. But I agree the best option is an intra-company transfer.
I think it's right that the employer does not need to show, for an H1-B visa, that you are preferable over local talent.
However, you are going to struggle in a practical sense to show those US firms why you ARE better than homegrown US applicants. I don't think an English law degree + LPC but without a completed training contract is going to be attractive to those US based firms.
As for targetting US firms in London, they are worth applying to but bear in mind that they tend to take on a smaller cohort of trainees compared to the large UK firms and can afford to be even more rigorous in who they recruit. Add to that the fact that the current market is hitting the practice areas in which the UK-based US firms are traditionally strong.
Finally, I agree with TommehR: if you are studying at a good Uni, have strong academics and interesting extra-currics then you should have got an interview or two. That certainly suggests your answers to the narrative type questions (eg "Why do you want to work at Clifford Chance" or "Why do you want to be a solicitor") are sub-standard.
Happy to take a look at any applications you've submitted.
Chalks.
To clarify my comment on H1-B visas, you need to show that there is no American to do the job to get a permanent H1-B visa. You might not for a temporary one.
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