chavs

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Reply 60

brunswick

Helenia

I think this whole debate has got ridiculously out of proportion.

agree, even though I got involved myself :redface:

anyway, I'm still confuzzled over what the original question was actually getting at? (I'm not suggesting it was a bad question before anyone starts yelling but I want to know what angle they were coming from)

Reply 61

JHutcher

Sorry for all the errors in my message, but i was spitting at the screen whilst typing.

Puppy its obvious that you have a different definition of Chav to the one that is common in my area... as i said chavs here are defined by there choice of unemployment, bad attitude towards society, obsession with fake-high-fashion.

It is clear that a class system still exists... and it has its merits. Whats wrong with a class system is when is used to descriminate against one memebr or the other. A Flued society is one where class isn't an issue. But Chavs don't fall into a class.

I don't go for all that deterministic crap about society creating its own problem, chavs have gone and do go to some perfectly fine schools and still come out with no qualifications and skills.

As for labels... they are damned useful. Nobody is suggesting that a label covers every possible difference but it links things with common features. Society is grouped and we can make judgements about groups 'all christians believe in God'.

For people that live in council housing and are poor and need to claim benifits its important to make a distinction between them and us. Because most of us manage to live sensibly in our society without causing harm to others... the same cannot be said of chavs.

Reply 62

Willa

puppy

Well I don't believe in 'class' so I think this is where the argument ends, I won't be able to convince selfish middle class oxbridge students to care about people worse off from themselves (pretending to care about disadvantaged kids while you bummed around India doesn't count), nor do I have the time to right now.

hey, I'm not some type of snob ok, I do care about society, but I do think society is divided into classes with different properties (most often related to wealth). I just think people at a young age make a choice about their lifestyle - I decided to work cos I wanted to go somewhere. I have friends who decided to piss around and see where life takes them. some have landed superb jobs without even going to uni (but they've had to work their way up to those jobs from being "sales advisors" which aint a v good job). Others have nothing to show for themselves. I think you can shape much more of your life than you think you can - and I think the lower classes can change their lives if they arent happy with them, it just takes a lot of effort!

Reply 63

French Pikachu

puppy

You have scarily little faith in people if you presume that most people don't want to work. Most people want jobs in order to feed their families and better themselves, it's only a very small minority who don't and that will never change.

Hm i know that quite a few posts have been posted since but what you're saying appears to me as not really true: lots of people dont want jobs, they want the money from the jobs but are actually too lazy to work... Lazyness is a common human caracterisitic i'm afraid but some have a will to make their lives better whereas others would rahter contemplate it and complain... Neverhteless i do agree that social pressure and social class make things much harder for some than for others... To conclude life is unfair but that doesnt allow u to complain all day or destroy other people's happiness!

EDIT: Don't bother me with my spelling enlgish isnt my 1st langage!

Reply 64

JHutcher

Would it be possible to drop this topic?

Its been debated to death and its obvious that most of us have our own view of what a chav is. I don't want to offend anyone or start an argument so perhaps its better if such debates were left to other areas of the forum.

Reply 65

French Pikachu

Willa

I would rather say people want more money rather than a job. But if a job is a means to that, then yes they want a job. The problem is, in quite a few cases it actually works out to little disadvantage to be unemployed and on benefits than it is to be in a low paid job: you have loads more free time for a tiny little bit of extra cash. I know people who have taken this attitude and given up on their jobs (such as bus drivers). People want something for as close to nothing as possible you see, and some people are content with the something they get for literally doing nothing!

ok now that i just came across ur post i must say that mine seems a bit late :redface:

nevertheless i totally agree with u and my previous post was meant to express this view (hope it was successful) but if u think benefits are a disentive to work in UK you should see in France wiht the social security... I'm not surprised the unemployment rate is as high as 10%... and it's worse if u think that we're talking about 10% of the working class so it doesnt inlcude students and in france u basically can't work until ur 18 so ti's not like there is a competition for finding jobs...