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Reply 20
Anatheme
Ok, so first, my impression of the language being "soul-destroying" might a bit a bit exaggerated, but it's definitely not only me, as a lot of my friends find it hard, and I think the drop out rate can also say a lot. Just for my university, out of 70 students at the beginning of the year, about 40 of them dropped out, I'm still pondering whether to give up or not, you'll find some people on TSR that have dropped out, and I discussed with friends at other universities (Cambridge, Oxford, Leeds, SOAS) telling me that often people dropped Arabic to focus on their other language. So yes, it is a rather difficult language, especially when you only have experience in European languages, as the OP may have.

I'm just reproducing a "worst case scenario" here, as the OP wants to study it as a part of their degree, and I'm saying that I wouldn't advise it at all. Having studied MSA will indeed give you the basis, but you can by no mean use it like Norwegian and Danish or Spanish and Italian, as you probably know that some are mutually incomprehensible, therefore if you focus on one dialect, you won't be able to use it everywhere through the Middle East region. You have to know what you want to do with your Arabic, it may be fine if you stick to Egyptian Arabic, but you'll have to make a choice between Gulf Arabic and Maghrebian Arabic and it doesn't give you as much choice as you might have first expected by choosing to study Arabic. Of course, you can pretend you'll just stick to MSA and speak it all the time (well, if you manage you get a great level, which according to several of my teachers shouldn't be expected after only a degree), but most people won't know it, and some will even misuse it (yes, some political men can't use their case endings properly and there is vocabulary you can use but that nobody will understand, as it also had been nicely said by our native teachers during lessons).

So it's up to you, but I guess these are the kind of things one would like to know before starting a degree in Arabic.


Ya , i agree with u
as i am an arabian ( mother tongue speaker)
it is a quite hard for a foreigner to learn it

the difficulties are :
1- it has too many public accents ,., it's like you have one for each arabian country
( ex : syrian accent , egyption accent , morrocoan accent , gulf accent .........etc )

2- the grammer is detailed and is taken in-depth , you have too many scantlings

3- you r going to enroll in the litrature of arabic , so you will analyze poems , criticize stories and essays , take the grammer of structuring couplets of poems , study the history of arab .

* as arabic is considered one of the oldest languages among others
so it sounds a bit creamy & greasy

the benefits of learning arabic :

1- once u learned arabic , you have a wide opportunity to utilize it well , for the reason that the arabic region contains of 21 arabic native countries , beside other islamic non-arab countries but speaks arabic

2- for the career life , it is demanded more than other languages because not too many graduates can accomplish its course for the relative difficulty comparing to other language

i reccomend u to engage to the arabic module

and if any questions , don't hesitate :wink:)
Reply 21
DominF
日本語を勉強してる。 How about this; Japanese doesn't have plurals, very few masculine/feminine specific words and the past/present/future tense system is the easiest I've come across. Plus it looks hella cool to write.

I'm enjoying learning Japanese, it's a nice mix of challenging areas and convenient differences from English, but I can't really offer advice concerning comparing it to the other languages... Sorry. :p:


I agree! I've done Japanese all through secondary school, and I'm currently doing my A levels.

There is a common assumption that Japanese is really difficult. To be honest, all languages are really difficult, if you want to get to a really good level because you need a lot of commitment. Japanese, imo is actually not as difficult as many other languages. I remember finding French really difficult due to masculine and feminine and the verbs confused me too. However Japanese is relatively simple grammatically. I.e. there aren't too many irregular verbs and there is quite an easy pattern to follow. Also there is no masculine/feminine or plural/singular. There is also no future tense.

The main thing about Japanese is that it's quite difficult to write, but once you've got the hang of it, it comes naturally to you quite quickly. You just need to make sure at the beginning you really spend time practising the characters - which really does pay off!!

Japanese is a really useful language because Japan is such a major country in the world of business, and it is also a fascinating country if you ever go there.
Anatheme
Ok, so first, my impression of the language being "soul-destroying" might a bit a bit exaggerated, but it's definitely not only me, as a lot of my friends find it hard, and I think the drop out rate can also say a lot. Just for my university, out of 70 students at the beginning of the year, about 40 of them dropped out, I'm still pondering whether to give up or not, you'll find some people on TSR that have dropped out, and I discussed with friends at other universities (Cambridge, Oxford, Leeds, SOAS) telling me that often people dropped Arabic to focus on their other language. So yes, it is a rather difficult language, especially when you only have experience in European languages, as the OP may have.

I'm just reproducing a "worst case scenario" here, as the OP wants to study it as a part of their degree, and I'm saying that I wouldn't advise it at all. Having studied MSA will indeed give you the basis, but you can by no mean use it like Norwegian and Danish or Spanish and Italian, as you probably know that some are mutually incomprehensible, therefore if you focus on one dialect, you won't be able to use it everywhere through the Middle East region. You have to know what you want to do with your Arabic, it may be fine if you stick to Egyptian Arabic, but you'll have to make a choice between Gulf Arabic and Maghrebian Arabic and it doesn't give you as much choice as you might have first expected by choosing to study Arabic. Of course, you can pretend you'll just stick to MSA and speak it all the time (well, if you manage you get a great level, which according to several of my teachers shouldn't be expected after only a degree), but most people won't know it, and some will even misuse it (yes, some political men can't use their case endings properly and there is vocabulary you can use but that nobody will understand, as it also had been nicely said by our native teachers during lessons).

So it's up to you, but I guess these are the kind of things one would like to know before starting a degree in Arabic.


Again, I don't deny that Arabic is, certainly a difficult language to master - and that it probably wouldn't be your best option if your preference is something 'fast' and relatively 'simple' to acquire -
Studying the Arabic language intensively probably isn't for the faint hearted, it takes a lot of time and effort, and an intent dedication is necessary,
Which as you rightly pointed out, might very well be why so many candidates drop out so early on in their studies,
But rather than it being a difficulty in acquiring the skill, or even an 'inconvenience' in there being so many different dialects, I strongly believe that it is a lack of determination on their part that causes the problems to arise (with exceptions obviously)

If you choose to study Standard Arabic, then you can easily avoid any of the inconveniences that arise in studying a dialect exclusively -
You've studied/or are studying Arabic yourself, and I'm sure you understand that though Maghrebian Arabic and the Arabic spoken in the Gulf are starkly different in some instances, they were both established from the same source, and so although they may have variations, understanding each is relatively simple if we take into consideration that the core language that ought to have been studied is a standard form of Arabic.

I personally speak the Egyptian dialect aswell as the Algerian dialect (Based on the french language), but because my studies were centred around the Standard form of Arabic I have no issues in understanding other dialects, regardless.

I don't think a 'worst case scenario' is appropriate here, what is needed is a clear and non biased approach that will aid the evaluation without any unwanted prejudice,
Clear and decisive, but not an incomplete presentation.
Reply 23
Avatar for mdb
mdb
OP
Thank you everyone, this has been really helpful. I think I'm going to either go for French, Spanish and Japanese, or just French and Arabic.

Thanks :smile:
Reply 24
I would say Arabic going by your post.
Japanese FTW, great language, great country :yep: (although i am slightly biased :p: )
BramsSTFU

Plus Japanese is so nice to listen to. There were two Japanese women on the bus the other day and they were gabbling away, I wish I could understand lol.


Walked past two of them today outside of our union. Actually knew that they were Japanese before I even passed them because of the way they were stood (yes Japanese people have bizarre body language.)

In my scenario, I could actually understand what they were talking about. Which is not great because girls talk about utter *****.

Anatheme
Ok, so first, my impression of the language being "soul-destroying" might a bit a bit exaggerated, but it's definitely not only me, as a lot of my friends find it hard, and I think the drop out rate can also say a lot. Just for my university, out of 70 students at the beginning of the year, about 40 of them dropped out, I'm still pondering whether to give up or not, you'll find some people on TSR that have dropped out, and I discussed with friends at other universities (Cambridge, Oxford, Leeds, SOAS) telling me that often people dropped Arabic to focus on their other language. So yes, it is a rather difficult language, especially when you only have experience in European languages, as the OP may have.


Japanese is the same tbh. Its even harder than Arabic I would image because the writing system is so complex.

I think something like 35 to 40 have dropped out of our course. Put it this way, there is a difference between simply learning a language and then learning intensively as part of a degree. They tend to squeeze most of the fun out from about week 6. If you wanna study the basics, then go for it. But if you wanna learn it quite intensively and get good quickly, then buy a heart monitor.
Reply 27
guy_incognito
Japanese is the same tbh. Its even harder than Arabic I would image because the writing system is so complex.

I think something like 35 to 40 have dropped out of our course. Put it this way, there is a difference between simply learning a language and then learning intensively as part of a degree. They tend to squeeze most of the fun out from about week 6. If you wanna study the basics, then go for it. But if you wanna learn it quite intensively and get good quickly, then buy a heart monitor.


That's about right, tbh. Learning if for fun or pleasure is gonna be fun and pleasurable. The degree tends to be not so fun an pleasurable, after you've done two months or three of the language and that you start wishing you did something else instead.
Biscuit_05
However Japanese is relatively simple grammatically. I.e. there aren't too many irregular verbs and there is quite an easy pattern to follow. Also there is no masculine/feminine or plural/singular. There is also no future tense.


Tackle the honorific and humble systems and all it gets a bit gray. I mean I've just been lectured on how to write formal e-mails. (とり急ぎお知らせまで etc etc.) The grammar can get very difficult, especially when you start reading academic journals and novels. Although, effectively being well read in English actually helps given how it comes together. Some authors like to be a pain and start throwing obscure kanji in and then write out kanji words in katakana for stylistic effect.

Whilst there is no future tense, there are absolutely tons of rules which govern quite complex nuances in the language.

Perhaps I'm just a bit crusty, now that I'm doing Classical Japanese as well - which is anything but simple...
Reply 29
Russian, I've studied Russian to GCSE. To be honest, it will get you by pretty much anywhere you go in East Europe and certain parts of Asia. Japanese is limited in it's use, so, I'd go with Russian or Arabic, but basically, out of those 3 I'd suggest Russian was the most exciting and the easiest.
Reply 30
many opportunities in Arabic. :biggrin:
If you want to persue any of these languages, ensure you actually have a genuine passion for them, and choose courses wisely. I hated my course this year, and deeply regret learning Arabic as a degree. I've learnt that languages are probably better learnt as a hobby, or on the side of a more meaty and profession-orientated degree, but that is entirely my opinion; clearly many people are happy to learn languages as core degrees.

Arabic is hard, but once you get the basics, and have dedication it's do-able. These languages are all beneficial, I just chose to stop learning them as a degree as I found it a bit too vague and wishy washy in terms of career prospects and I detested my course and university - I think you have to be practical at the end of the day; I want to do something that interests me and something that traditionally leads into secure employment...

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