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Reply 140
Holly Hiskey
Sorry, what is wrong with having boyfriends and girlfriends again?


http://caliph.wordpress.com/articles/boy-girl/
Reply 141
Personally, I think a large problem as well is peoples complete willingness to agree that something is rape, when sometimes it isnt.

Dont get me wrong, rape does happen. But there are certain cases when a someone is just being careless, misleading or provocative. There are cases where a woman's 'no' was not clear enough, and the man genuinely thought he had consent. There are examples where a woman may be afraid to say no, then claim rape afterwards.

There was an example at my school where a girl claimed she was raped by another student. The whole school ridiculed him, insutled him and refused to talk to him, and that stuck with him till the day he left. No girl would go near him, guys were afraid to be seen with him, and teachers would treat him badly. Everyone took the girls word for it without thinking.

What had actually happened was both of the two people were drunk, and woke up not remembering much. The girl started saying she was raped, the guy said he didn't do anything of the sort, but admitted they had sex. Both of them were all over each other, and from everyone's perspective there was no problem until a few days later. Eventually someone came forward who had accidentally walked in on them.

Anyway, my point was that false rapes can happen to, and that can really screw up someones life.

I am in no way saying that rapes dont happen, but one has to keep their senses up and no just discount every rape story as being either true or false without looking at the facts and thinking.
RobertPires
I read it all and have to say I wasn't impressed. I came in here expecting a good essay on sexual assault or date rape and instead read this woman's anecdotal evidence and conjecture. Before anyone jumps on my back, I'm a feminist, I think rape is one of the most abhorrent crimes there is, I never seek to make excuses for men involved and I think this woman's experiences were terrible, however she is blaming society for a problem that is always going to exist.

Anyway, my problems with it were...


That isn't rape or even this "Not Rape" she seems to be trying to coin, it is what happens in all relationships (not just romantic ones). One party wants to do something, the other doesn't, so they either compromise or one party does something they don't want to.
If the woman at any point says no, she doesn't want to do this and never backtracks on that then I want the full weight of the law brought down upon the guy. However the problem is that as humans we all strive to get what we want out of any situation. If a guy wants to have sex with you he is going to do everything within his power to convince you to do so. If you really don't want to do it, then you have to have the strength to say no.
The social climate is admittedly one that doesn't necessarily make it easy for a young girl to say no to her boyfriend, however if she doesn't want to do it, she has to say, mean it and keep on saying it every time he asks until she is ready or he pisses off. Someone "grinding you down" doesn't make it any less consensual. At some point this person has said or done something that has convinced you that sleeping with them is your best option. Even if this guy is a complete scumbag and says he is leaving you if it doesn't happen, if you think sleeping with him is better than being without him then you have arrived at the decision in your mind to have sex with him. It doesn't make him a rapist or a "not-rapist". It makes him a horrible person and complete scum, but the woman has made a decision.

If you are talking date rape, then it isn't "not rape", it's rape. If you are saying you got a little bit too drunk and did something you regret, then you are culpable for it. Even if this person was a "trusted family friend". If you at some point made it clear to this individual you were willing to sleep with them and have then later changed your mind, this person is not responsible for your actions. I really don't understand where she's going on this point...

A horrific experience I'm sure, but hardly grounds to call sexual assault. Has this guy grossly misbehaved? Yes, but he hasn't actually done anything beyond propositioning you. Just as it is his right to ask, it is your right to decline. I have a very hard time believing that anybodies parents would dismiss this, especially if the party in question is below the age of consent.

This is quite clearly sexual assault and something you should be reporting to the correct authorities. Start of with reporting it your school and then if it continues to the police. If you refuse to make an issue out of it, then nobody else can do anything to help you. It isn't your fault it's happening, but you've done absolutely nothing to attempt to stop it as far as I can tell from what has been outlined in this scenario.

That isn't "not rape" it is rape. Statutory rape to be precise. If this was something you didn't want to be doing, then it's something you shouldn't have entered into. The law says that you cannot consent so the guy doing this clearly needs to be prosecuted, but it's another case of if you aren't happy with the status quo, you need to do something. There are, unfortuneatly always going to be the sort of sick, sexual deviants who will attempt to do this with twelve year old girls. Perhaps at the time you thought it was ok, but now you're grown up you know otherwise. If that's the case then you need to report the offence now. If you refuse to help have the people targetting these girls charged and hopefully incarcerated, then what can any of who had no knowledge of these relationships do?


The bottom line is if these girls had been educated properly then they'd actually realise that all these "not-rape" incidents were at the very least sexual assault. Throughout the essay she makes excuses for why her and her friends didn't report these matters, even going into detail about why nobody would believe her, but that isn't the point. If you are the victim of a sexual assualt you have to make it known. You have to have the courage to stand up and tell people what this person has done to you.
Can anyone guarantee a conviction? No. Can anyone guarantee you'll be believed? No, but if you hide away making excuses for why it would be pointless to tell anyone apart from your friends then you aren't helping to break the cycle. You are perpetuating it. The essay's conclusion is just stating the blindingly obvious, that essentially people need to be aware of what laws are in place to protect them. That doesn't just apply to rape, "not rape", or to women, it applies every single member of society.

I also question what she is referring to by "rape-culture". As far as I am aware within the Western world it is pretty much unanimously accepted that rape is a heinous crime. Society may promote the sexualisation and objectification of women, but to call that a "rape-culture" is not only cynical, but naive.



I'm aware you posted this over a year ago but I wanted to make this point, you don't have to respond.

I think you're totally missing the point of the article.

Yes, there is a legal definition of what's rape and what isn't. But I don't think the writer was trying to say that all the incidents she listed were rape. She's making the point that it's like, if it's not rape then that makes it ok.

So with the examples given- yeah, some of them technically aren't rape. But people act as if because it wasn't legally rape, that makes it ok, and the guy isn't guilty of anything. Whereas when a girl is taken advantage of, or pressured into something, that's always wrong, and that's always a violation, whether it's rape or not. So the term 'not rape' has become synonymous with 'it was ok for him to do that'.

You say


As far as I am aware within the Western world it is pretty much unanimously accepted that rape is a heinous crime.


But this is just absolutely not true. I've read so many posts on TSR where girls have been raped, but because the situation was atypical people have blamed her, said the rapist was justified and claimed the girl was a slag and a whore.

Just last week a girl posted in distress, saying she'd been having sex with a man and he forced anal sex on her- she said no and he held her down. The responses were horrific- she was called a whore, a slut and told that she deserved it, and should keep her legs closed.

Another post on TSR- a girl was semi conscious at a party, and a guy started fingering her fairly violently. She was too drunk to register it, and then when she did she moved away. She was told numerous time that she was to blame and that she was a cheat (she had a boyfriend). This was clearly sexual assault- because she wasn't in a position to consent- but people didn't seem to see it this way.

Another thread was a girl who asked her boyfriend to stop during sex because it was hurting her, and he held her down and carried on. The thread was full of numerous men and women who were saying that the guy was justified in doing this, because she'd consented to sex in the first place. This was quite obviously rape- but again, people didn't seem to think so.

I could give plenty of examples, but I've made my point. You seem to see rape as being clear cut- and so do I, but so many people don't. Many people see rape as justifiable in some situations. And this is reflected in our justice system, where it's probable that none of the above cases would have gone to court, let alone ended in conviction.

This willingness to justify sexual violation, whether it was technically rape or not, and to see it as something normal and acceptable, is what the article is criticising. At least, that's what I got from it.
Reply 143
I think there's some confusion here.

1. Most of these arguments seem to be about use of the word "responsible". Let's clarify things: a woman is "responsible" for her own personal safety. A man is "responsible" for his own actions. But whatever situation she's in, a woman is NOT responsible for some bloke's actions - only he is - and therefore it's inaccurate to say that the woman is "responsible for", "asking for", or "to blame for" the act of being raped. She may have made it more likely, but it was not her fault.

2. Yes, we as women can reduce the likelihood of becoming random rape victims. No, we shouldn't have to, but we do. Stranger rape is a crime that happens a lot like mugging does, and we can fight it like any other crime. I'm not sure social education is going to help.

3. Non-stranger rape. If you're going to argue that women need to be careful in order to avoid rape, you should also argue that men need to be careful to avoid accusations of rape. If you're going to allow a questionable friend to walk you home drunk, some would say you're "asking" to be raped. If you're going to have sex with someone when there's any question about consent, what's going on? You're "asking" for a rape accusation. It goes both ways, smart guy.

4. I can't state this enough. As you as a man are responsible for the act of rape, you personally need to be the one who's most careful about it. You need to notice when you're treading on dangerous ground, and get out. If you argue that men are not responsible for the act of rape, then you're arguing that you are a mindless animal. In that situation, perhaps Saalih's right, and we do need Sharia law to protect us!! :P
Reply 144
Most woman ask for it.

That's the reality of the situation.

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