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Reply 40
Tory Dan
A small figure to the millions that would die if communism had crept across South East Asia.


I disagree with this. The imminent spread of communism throughout SE Asia, was a threat, but in no way did that justify military action and subtle genocide. America went into Vietnam and involved themselves unnecessarily in a civil war to bring peace and harmony to that country. They lost 60,000 troops and spent hundreds of billions of dollars, yet failed to achieve victory. Ironically, since losing in Vietnam they now have a better relationship with them than ever.They now trade, invest, travel, and communicate with a unified, western-leaning country that is catching on rather quickly to capitalist ways. This policy, not military confrontation, is exactly what the Constitution permits and the Founders encouraged in our relationship with others. This is what policy America should have pursued with Vietnam, not a useless horror of a war..
Reply 41
Aeolus
I disagree with this. The imminent spread of communism throughout SE Asia, was a threat, but in no way did that justify military action and subtle genocide. America went into Vietnam and involved themselves unnecessarily in a civil war to bring peace and harmony to that country. They lost 60,000 troops and spent hundreds of billions of dollars, yet failed to achieve victory. Ironically, since losing in Vietnam they now have a better relationship with them than ever.They now trade, invest, travel, and communicate with a unified, western-leaning country that is catching on rather quickly to capitalist ways. This policy, not military confrontation, is exactly what the Constitution permits and the Founders encouraged in our relationship with others. This is what policy America should have pursued with Vietnam, not a useless horror of a war..


Although i disagree with the "subtle genocide" note, this post is pretty much right. The war in Vietnam wasn't necessary, and ultimately the region was better off by our absence. Cambodia attacked Vietnam, Vietnam attacked Cambodia which brought China in. Ultimately, none of them were able to engulf the other, and the region is far far more stable and prosperous than during/directly after the war.
Indeed.

Why can the USA get away with slaughtering our troops in friendly fire incidents, then have the nerve to demand we hand over a hacker who committed his crime in Britain?
sirandrew
i question whether war has ever been fair or morally right


I'm a pacifist, but I think there is a strong case for arguing that WW2 was a 'moral' war.
Reply 44
Olivia_Lightbulb
I'm a pacifist, but I think there is a strong case for arguing that WW2 was a 'moral' war.


Somewhat. While its likely the closest a war has every come to being morally correct (aka stopping the Holocaust and Hitler), we still bombed civilian centers for no reason other than to try to scare the Germans (reverse battle of London style). Prisoners were executed all the time; the Russian partisans killed off German soldiers in occupied territories knowing full well the policy of 'for every German that dies because of partisans, 100 Russians will be killed'. So yes, the goal of killing Hitler was great, but then it comes down to, do to the means justify the ends? *cough* atomic bomb *cough*. Of course, by this point i am simply playing devil's advocate, but the points remain valid.
Reply 45
Iran stands upto America.
Reply 46
Playboy King
Why is it that the USA don't have to answer to anybody for their actions yet they're always interfering with just about every other country's business?


Good question. Because of a mixture of American Firepower and Jewish-American financial and media power. In a word, Power. Israel provides the enemies through US media propaganda and America supplies the guns and grunts.
Ya hear that guys? It's the J00Z. I KNEW IT.
Reply 48
:zomg: ROFLCOPTER :rofl2: Kickflip's always good for the lulz.
Reply 49
Olivia_Lightbulb
The armed forces are not above international law; we don't 'get over it' when civilians die unnecessarily. There are laws governing modern warfare which must be obeyed.
Members of the Serbian armed forces were tried for war crimes following the Bosnian conflict for example.
After WW2 many questioned whether Britain would be tried for war crimes due to the sustained and largely unncessary bombing of Dresden in Germany, a city of little military importance with mainly civilians in residence. They were not. Why? Because they were the victors.
The only reason the US forces avoided being tried for war crimes following the Vietnam war is because it was the most economically powerful and politically influential country in the world. This is not a fair or morally right situation.

Why should British people be charged for dresden? The german people voted hitler into power and supported him all the time knowing that he was going to start a war. Besides it was valuable in military terms the germans took over a 100k of casualties, how many german troops were kept occupied sorting bodies instead of fighting?
Some americans were tried for crimes in american courts though in some cases their sentences were lenient.
Reply 50
MrFroggy
Why should British people be charged for dresden? The german people voted hitler into power and supported him all the time knowing that he was going to start a war. Besides it was valuable in military terms the germans took over a 100k of casualties, how many german troops were kept occupied sorting bodies instead of fighting?
Some americans were tried for crimes in american courts though in some cases their sentences were lenient.


very few German soldiers were told to sort bodies. That was left mostly to the civilians. They were taking old men and boys to fight, hence strapped for manpower. I highly doubt they were going to put soldiers to pick through dead bodies in that kind of environment.
because USA think that God had created them to make peace in the world. But when we see clearly we know that where ever they have gone, the problem had become worse.
Reply 52
sirandrew
very few German soldiers were told to sort bodies. That was left mostly to the civilians. They were taking old men and boys to fight, hence strapped for manpower. I highly doubt they were going to put soldiers to pick through dead bodies in that kind of environment.

Some soldiers must have been present to keep order though. Plus the damage to the german economy of loosing a whole city must have been significant. My point is that it harmed germany's ability to make war so it was justified.
Reply 53
MrFroggy
Some soldiers must have been present to keep order though. Plus the damage to the german economy of loosing a whole city must have been significant. My point is that it harmed germany's ability to make war so it was justified.



But killing innocent Gernman civilians by the millions, who otherwise would be working in factories or drafted as soldiers would harm Germany's ability to make war. Is this justified?
Reply 54
Aeolus
But killing innocent Gernman civilians by the millions, who otherwise would be working in factories or drafted as soldiers would harm Germany's ability to make war. Is this justified?


this, one could say the holocaust was justified because maybe a couple thousand of the Jews would have revolted or joined a partisan group. But that person is still full of **** and it was still a genocide.
Reply 55
Aeolus
But killing innocent Gernman civilians by the millions, who otherwise would be working in factories or drafted as soldiers would harm Germany's ability to make war. Is this justified?

Yes, they voted hitler in and supported him and in doing so sealed their fate. I think it was Arthur harris who said something along the lines of "if I bomb their factories it takes them a few months to build a new one, if I kill one of their workers it takes 18 years to make a new one". Of course WW2 was a war based around industrial capacity so is incomparable to wars since then.
Reply 56
sirandrew
this, one could say the holocaust was justified because maybe a couple thousand of the Jews would have revolted or joined a partisan group. But that person is still full of **** and it was still a genocide.

Thats completely different the jews were not a threat. They were not working to provide armies with bullets that might end up killing german soldiers. There was such a thing as a german resistance so maybe hitler should have killed all germans by your logic?
Reply 57
MrFroggy
Yes, they voted hitler in and supported him and in doing so sealed their fate. I think it was Arthur harris who said something along the lines of "if I bomb their factories it takes them a few months to build a new one, if I kill one of their workers it takes 18 years to make a new one". Of course WW2 was a war based around industrial capacity so is incomparable to wars since then.




Oh please.. Do not be so naive as to say that the all the Germans new what they were voting for, or what they were supporting. There are a vast array of factors in Hitlers rise to power.

And what do you say to those who didn't vote for Hitler. Were there deaths justified? Were the thousands of deaths caused by the blitz justified because it harmed the UK's war effort?

By your logic. Genocide would be justified, because killing every single German man, woman and child would do the most harm to the reichs war effort..

It happened yes. But i don't believe it was justified and i don't believe it was neccesary. Especially in the latter stages of the war.
Reply 58
Aeolus
Oh please.. Do not be so naive as to say that the all the Germans new what they were voting for, or what they were supporting. There are a vast array of factors in Hitlers rise to power.

And what do you say to those who didn't vote for Hitler. Were there deaths justified? Were the thousands of deaths caused by the blitz justified because it harmed the UK's war effort?

By your logic. Genocide would be justified, because killing every single German man, woman and child would do the most harm to the reichs war effort..

It happened yes. But i don't believe it was justified and i don't believe it was neccesary. Especially in the latter stages of the war.

Im sure the brownshirts gave them a hint of what they were voting for.

They still supported him. No the blitz deaths were not justified because we were in the right.

Genocide is unnecessary and would be counter productive anyway as it would make all germans fight to the death. However had the A-bomb been around at the time then destroying german cities one by one until capitulation is perfectly justified.

It was justified, germany sent her armies forth to kill millions of russians, to enslave the slavs, to massacre the jews and to destroy the empire. Yet according to you the german civilians shouldn't be touched? If the germans hadn't bombed cities then perhaps you would have a point.

Anyway this is way off topic.
Reply 59
MrFroggy
Im sure the brownshirts gave them a hint of what they were voting for.

They still supported him. No the blitz deaths were not justified because we were in the right.

Genocide is unnecessary and would be counter productive anyway as it would make all germans fight to the death. However had the A-bomb been around at the time then destroying german cities one by one until capitulation is perfectly justified.

It was justified, germany sent her armies forth to kill millions of russians, to enslave the slavs, to massacre the jews and to destroy the empire. Yet according to you the german civilians shouldn't be touched? If the germans hadn't bombed cities then perhaps you would have a point.

Anyway this is way off topic.


We declared war on the Germans remember. We attacked them first, so theoretically by your logic they were justified attacking our cities and civilians?

Although in the worng, the Germans believed they were justified in attacking us. What about the recent war in Iraq, that was illegal, even though our Government said it was justified. If the Iraqi's had the means would they be in the right to drop A bombs on our cities until we capitulated.

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