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Nothing. It isn't broken.
Reply 2
Lord_Farquad
Nothing. It isn't broken.

Care to back up that statement? After all it spends twice as much as the Swiss system per capita without tangible benefits, all the while not fully covering a significant part of the population.

How is that a healthcare system that isn't broken?
Reply 3
Captain Crash
In order to drag the debate out of the 'Anti-Obama' Thread, I thought I'd start this one.

So, as we all know, Obama plans for Healthcare reform in the US have been met with, at times, vitriolic debate. The fact that the US spends twice as much per capita on healthcare, without equivalent additional healthcare benefits whilst leaving 75 million people without insurance or underinsured, the system is clearly in need of reform of some sort.

What should America do to fix it's healthcare system?

gov intervention ftew
Reply 4
America has excellent health care for rich people. These same people think a health care plan for everyone will hurt their level of healthcare in the end its selfishness.

75 million people without healthcare, these same people are left to die but then America has the balls to quote statistics that britain has a 77 percent survival rate for prostate cancer treatment whereas they have 100 percent ignoring those who get no treatment.

Britain is ranked 18th in the world for healthcare and America is ranked 36th. America spends double Britain does.

Cuba has a superior healthcare system to America that says it all.
Lord_Farquad
Nothing. It isn't broken.


In some respects you're right, the system works (thus isn't broken), but it only works for those who can afford it.

What about the millions who can't afford healthcare or insurance? Don't they matter?

Healthcare is a human right, not a privilege for only those who can afford it, and that's why there should be a Government run healthcare system for those unable to afford their own healthcare/healthcare insurance.

I wouldn't want to see Government run healthcare across the board, and to be honest, I don't think it would ever happen.

You can tell a lot about a country by the way it cares for its people. Therefore the question people need to ask is, what does the fact that 75 million Americans are either uninsured or under-insured, say about the USA? I don't think it says anything positive.
Reply 6
I don't know much about US healthcare policy but I do know that even though I am very fit physically I would not be able to get medical insurance in the US due to a pre-existing condition that I was diagnosed with at birth. There seems to be an inherent unfairness in a system that can effectively exclude you because of your genes, no matter how well you take care of yourself or what actions you take to make yourself a better risk. It is unlikely that insurers could exclude me on the grounds of race or gender, but its apparently fine to discriminate on the grounds of genetics. Go figure.
Reply 7
Captain Crash
In order to drag the debate out of the 'Anti-Obama' Thread, I thought I'd start this one.

So, as we all know, Obama plans for Healthcare reform in the US have been met with, at times, vitriolic debate. The fact that the US spends twice as much per capita on healthcare, without equivalent additional healthcare benefits whilst leaving 75 million people without insurance or underinsured, the system is clearly in need of reform of some sort.

What should America do to fix it's healthcare system?



Speaking as someone who has extensive experience of MEDICAID provision - I find it shocking how little is understood by Europeans about the American healthcare system. It does approach the standard of the NHS. The fact that millions of Americans are uninsured is clearly true - however it does not tell the full story. Many of these recieve basic emergency care under the MEDICARE and the MEDICAID systems.

Paid insurance schemes, though expensive, and not available to many Americans provide an appreciable higher level of service than the NHS.



I speak as a Socialist and a supporter of European style medical provision. We must not however view the American system in simplistic terms.
Reply 8
Captain Crash
In order to drag the debate out of the 'Anti-Obama' Thread, I thought I'd start this one.

What should America do to fix it's healthcare system?


Many might well argue that the NHS needs as much fixing as the American system. Breakthroughs such as implant dentristry inevitably seem to start in the USA and spread to Europe.

Im no fan of Pollard, nor do I consider the JC a sensible news source, but a few interesting points are raised here.

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/ignorant-myths-about-us-healthcare
Reply 9
JCM89
I don't know much about US healthcare policy but I do know that even though I am very fit physically I would not be able to get medical insurance in the US due to a pre-existing condition that I was diagnosed with at birth. There seems to be an inherent unfairness in a system that can effectively exclude you because of your genes, no matter how well you take care of yourself or what actions you take to make yourself a better risk. It is unlikely that insurers could exclude me on the grounds of race or gender, but its apparently fine to discriminate on the grounds of genetics. Go figure.


Certainly a problem, but don't forget the fact that those without insurance in the USA are not entirely on their own in terms of financial support. Some would argue that MEDICAID approaches NHS standards.
sulpicia
Speaking as someone who has extensive experience of MEDICAID provision - I find it shocking how little is understood by Europeans about the American healthcare system. It does approach the standard of the NHS. The fact that millions of Americans are uninsured is clearly true - however it does not tell the full story. Many of these recieve basic emergency care under the MEDICARE and the MEDICAID systems.

Paid insurance schemes, though expensive, and not available to many Americans provide an appreciable higher level of service than the NHS.



I speak as a Socialist and a supporter of European style medical provision. We must not however view the American system in simplistic terms.

I understand how the medicare and medicaid work (I didn't want to go overboard in the OP :p:)

Medicaid has very strict eligibility guidelines, such that ~60% people of poor Americans aren't eligible. For those who are eligible, Medicaid rarely covers the full cost.

Medicare fares somewhat better as it provides universal healthcare benefits for the over 65s. However, again, it only contributes to the costs - the individual still pays a co-payment along with any aid given.

Both these plans, however, aren't particularly healthy budget-wise as their costs increase as US healthcare increases, which it's been doing at a phenomenal rate since the 80s.
Reply 11
Lord_Farquad
Nothing. It isn't broken.


how is it not broken. It runs on who can afford it basis, not a need basis leaving 70 million people without healthcare. Plus those with insurance still dont always recieve there rights while the executives get millions in bonuses for doing nothing! Its a disgrace that th richest country in the world, a 1st world nation has people living in 3rd world standards!
Reply 12
sulpicia
Certainly a problem, but don't forget the fact that those without insurance in the USA are not entirely on their own in terms of financial support. Some would argue that MEDICAID approaches NHS standards.


Medicaid is means tested or you have to have an eligible disability. If you are working to try and support yourself, you can find that you are out of reach of Medicaid but unable to fund treatment from your own resources.

Medicaid certainly does not come close to approaching NHS standards. My condition is not covered as an approved disability. With other conditions that are covered, such as HIV, the condition has to deteriorate markedly (i.e move from HIV to AIDS) before it is considered a disability and you can get treatment covered by Medicaid.
Reply 13
Lord_Farquad
Nothing. It isn't broken.


ps i just saw you went to Eton and Stamford, explaining why a rich snob like you would not want give the chance for someone less privelaged than you an equal opportunity to life and good health!
sulpicia
Many might well argue that the NHS needs as much fixing as the American system. Breakthroughs such as implant dentristry inevitably seem to start in the USA and spread to Europe.

Im no fan of Pollard, nor do I consider the JC a sensible news source, but a few interesting points are raised here.

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/ignorant-myths-about-us-healthcare


I'm not suggesting by any means that the NHS is a suitable replacement for the US system - I'm looking more at the European models.

However, I'd argue that the NHS is an interesting system that's been derailed by chronic shortage of funding in 80s and early 90s, and I agree needs some reform itself. However, it's one of the most cost-efficient systems in the world. It's also made more contributions to evidence based medicine (i.e. does an intervention actually work or not, and how much) than any other country, due to the fact it can command trials across a large population base.
steed999
ps i just saw you went to Eton and Stamford, explaining why a rich snob like you would not want give the chance for someone less privelaged than you an equal opportunity to life and good health!


Way-to-stereotype : /

From what I see the system is not broken. There are plenty of free hospitals around here who treat the poor, in fact I think there is one over in Atlanta called Grady which is HUGE and reaches out to all the poor in Atlanta.
Captain Crash
In order to drag the debate out of the 'Anti-Obama' Thread, I thought I'd start this one.

So, as we all know, Obama plans for Healthcare reform in the US have been met with, at times, vitriolic debate. The fact that the US spends twice as much per capita on healthcare, without equivalent additional healthcare benefits whilst leaving 75 million people without insurance or underinsured, the system is clearly in need of reform of some sort.

What should America do to fix it's healthcare system?


First of all - my position on American citizens criticising our healthcare system - is that they are stupid. Do they not realise they have a 3rd world healthcare system. Obama needs to put everyone on Medicare, for free, but with the option of paying for a private insurance premium.
Reply 17
Lord_Farquad
Way-to-stereotype : /

From what I see the system is not broken. There are plenty of free hospitals around here who treat the poor, in fact I think there is one over in Atlanta called Grady which is HUGE and reaches out to all the poor in Atlanta.


There aren't plenty of free hospitals.

Grady isn't a free hospital. Fees are on a sliding scale and you have to prove that you are a resident of either Fulton or De Kalb counties to qualify for reduced fees. It's also the only trauma centre in a 100 mile radius which given that it serves a huge metro area is hardly a wealth of provision.
Reply 18
I am perfectly happy with people paying for their own healthcare if they want it, though I think there absolutely has to be some form of healthcare provided to everyone by the government of any country, regardless of age, race, genetics. I cannot accept that the USA is a free, democratic, first-world country when they execute people (though that is a different argument, I won't go there now) and do not provide healthcare to so many of their citizens.

There was a TV programme made a few years back by the same guy that did Supersize Me. He and his fiancee went to live in a trailer for 30 days while he worked on the minimum wage in order to see what it was like to be a poor American. During this time he did something to his arm (broke it I think) and had to go to the Emergency Room. The free healthcare he got was a sling. No arm-fixing, just a sling. He then got treated for it and the bill he was presented with was more than the total wages he would earn for that entire month. How is that fair?!

On a lighter note, did anyone hear about the Republican group who said that the famous physicist Stephen Hawking would be dead under the NHS because they wouldn't have provided his treatment? He then released a statement saying he was born, lives and works in the UK and finds the NHS top notch! Some American commented that he only got this care because he is famous, not realising that he wasn't famous in his early twenties when he was diagnosed :rolleyes:
Reply 19
I think the US healthcare system suits most Americans which is why they want to keep it. They are used to paying for things and getting what they want even if its not what they need. I'm not surprised that Americans are easily frighten by tales of how awful the NHS is since most Americans are quite ignorant of the rest of the world and see it as a wild, uncivilised place. For example, my American cousin who is a university graduate asked if Denmark was in Europe.

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