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usainlightning
THe budget for the NHS is 103bn and there are slightly less than 35m taxpayers in the uk. Easy maths.


The average taxpayer does not pay £3,000 in taxes.
Unknown?
One that is more similar to an american like system with most people having private insurance. You make it sound judging people is bad, I'm just trying to make the system more fair. :rolleyes:


So you think it's fair for people to not get treatment if they can't afford it?

How much do you think private insurance costs anyway? Some of you would be surprised...
Reply 62
No, 'cause I couldn't afford it ... If I needed a heart transplant and I was American, I would be so screwed.
Reply 63
Unknown?
It seems like people are asking me every health condition to judge whether it should be on the nhs or paid for by yourself. All I can do is give my opinion on what I think is reasonably fair. Some cases are sad such as that mental health/obesity one, it depends on whoever is making the decision to treat them at the time. I can see that the mental health problem isn't their fault but also its not the taxpayers fault this person is that way.

Also all sports comes with the risk of getting hurt which people should recognise, If you get hurt then its your fault especially if they wanted to get hurt on purpose whatever the reason.

Now this might sound of cruel but if your born poor then thats just bad luck (though I think people in education without a job should get free coverage and maybe they could pay some stuff that was their fault like drug addiction back later when their earning money). I wasn't born in an extremely rich family but I just think I'm doing whats fair. You have to deal with what life gives you, you can be born athletic, good looking or smart but you can also be born with all the opposites. If you are then I feel sorry for you (I'm not good looking or athletic myself) but you have to learn to deal with what life gives you. Being born with money is just the same as being born with any of those things.



I consider myself to be rather conservative but would hate to see us deviate greatly from a NHS to an american system.
Obviously there are big problems within the NHS but that does not mean it is wrong as an ideology.
They say the countries with the best health and happiness are ones with the shortest gap in earnings. I don't personally believe this but do believe that with regards to health care this would be true; i.e. there would be people not receiving consistent levels of care ( to an extent postcode lotteries do cause this but not to as great an extent).

Healthcare in America is sometimes seen as the best but only because with it being private there will be places with copious amounts of money for equipment etc, but im betting there will be plenty of completely substandard hospitals or clinics

And furthermore if you really want you can go private in this country, which may feel like you are paying for it twice, but its still an option if the NHS is that bad.

Personally i would hate to work in a medical context where financial issues are regularly involved, as if it was a business profiteering from poor health. Imagine having to consider whether you can afford to stay that extra day in hospital which the doctors are recommending, or certain procedures.

And the insurance companies aren't all that great there are numerous accounts of insurance companies worming their way out of paying, after all they are a business and their number one aim is to make money.

You continue on about sports injuries being ones fault yet you go on to say that obesity is also ones fault. How do you want people to maintain a level of fitness. Only limit exercise to a brisk walk - which even then can result in an innocuous injury or a trip as has been mentioned

Obviously everyone wants the NHS to improve as it has some big problems, but i would rather suffer these than leave people with care, and i could always seek it elsewhere if i wasn't satisfied
Reply 64
Even with insurance in America you still have to pay out an awful lotif soemthing happens to you, and the insurance companies try as hard as they damn well can to find a way out of paying for your treatment, on Michael Moore's documentary "Sicko"for example, one woman got retroactively denied payment for chemo or something, because she hadn't declared in her history that she'd once had a yeast infection..
I personally am happy to pay taxes, because its a hell of a lot cheaper than it would be to pay for insurance and then treatment if something happened to me, and there's always that security there
Reply 65
Unknown?
Same goes for people who have drinked, took drugs in their life or are obese due to them excessively eating more than they obviously need, its their fault!

Ugh, you're such an arse. What if you've been suffering from clinical depression and other mental health issues for the last three years? Yes, I gained a lot of weight, although I'm not 'obese', and if you had a brain, you would think about the things you say before you say them. No, I didn't just sit there eating loads of food for the lulz, and it was not my fault! Have you actually thought about mental health issues that may also lead to alcohol and drugs and how that would work in your o' so amazing healthcare system, or did you just forget about us?
Unknown?
I imagine that a lot of people here would be against the idea of a fully privatized heathcare system in the UK because for some reason we think that healthcare is some right which I don't get. What makes YOU and others so special that we get free healthcare paid out from our taxes (some more than others)? I don't wish sickness on other people but I also don't see why when one day I'll be paying taxes I should be responsible for the health of others, especially when I'd rather have private insurance.

Now I don't have a heart of stone :rolleyes: I don't think that, for example a mother with cancer should be left untreated or anything which isn't exactly the persons fault. But if you break your leg skating then you should be given a bill after your treatment at hospital. You took the risk you pay the consequences. Same goes for people who have drinked, took drugs in their life or are obese due to them excessively eating more than they obviously need, its their fault!

I think the current level of NHS cover which the government provides should be reduced and only be used for people who actually need treatment allowing taxes to be reduced. Everyone else should just buy private cover and see that healthcare isn't some right for everyone. Its just a right because everyone says it is but what makes people so special that they deserve it? I shouldn't be expected to pay for anyones healthcare and I don't expect anyone to pay about mine. I'd much rather prefer a more american style healthcare system.


right im nt agreeing or disagreeing n havnt read any other comments as yet...
firsty it would be a ligistical nightmare because it would be too ambiguos and there arent enuf resources to investigate aspects of a persons life also these cud be better used just treaating the people.

you can look at the black and acheson report as well the NHS isnt actualy as good as it was supposed to be n now the rich poor health gap is a lot bigger... so maybe insurance wud give ppl a reason to actually go n get a job, also if the NHS fully comprhensive and free at the point of delivery were to be taken away there would be serous public uproar
wt about a meretocratic system like if you pay taxes you can have healthcare but if you dont you cant
on the other hand it would force ppl to get jobs n it would make them think before they did stupid things or drove whilst under the influence or something
anyways s'all good
Pink Bullets
The average taxpayer does not pay £3,000 in taxes.


The average taxpayer earns 25 grand. The first 6,000 has no tax. The next 19 grand has 20 percent tax on it which is 3,800. Then there is national insurance. the first 6,000 has not tax on it. The next 19 grand has 11% tax on it aaabout 2,000 therefore 5,800 so far. Then we have the highest fuel duty in the world whith something like 67p of every litre going on tax, then there all the road taxes CO2 taxes including air travel.
There is alot of tax on cigarettes and beer and i could go on and on. So the average taxpayer pays about 10 grand a year in tax. That is a it more than 3.
Failed123
Ugh, you're such an arse. What if you've been suffering from clinical depression and other mental health issues for the last three years? Yes, I gained a lot of weight, although I'm not 'obese', and if you had a brain, you would think about the things you say before you say them. No, I didn't just sit there eating loads of food for the lulz, and it was not my fault! Have you actually thought about mental health issues that may also lead to alcohol and drugs and how that would work in your o' so amazing healthcare system, or did you just forget about us?

mental health issues are alot of the time self inflicted.
Reply 69
usainlightning
mental health issues are alot of the time self inflicted.

No they're not. Don't be so ignorant.
Failed123
No they're not. Don't be so ignorant.


maybe there not directly linked but if you look back and think about why your mental health issue came about you might understand. there are obvious exceptions of course.
Reply 71
usainlightning
maybe there not directly linked but if you look back and think about why your mental health issue came about you might understand. there are obvious exceptions of course.

Well lets see, my father was schizophrenic, my Grandfather on my mother's side was depressed and killed himself, and as soon as I hit 13 I had my problems. Yeah, you're right, somewhere down the line I must have caused it somehow. I wish people would actually understand mental illnesses before they spew their garbage. That's fine though, if it wasn't for people like you, I wouldn't be as interested in a career in medicine.
Reply 72
Brave the Storm
My god...

Even for an advocator of a fully private health system, this is pretty bleak. Are you genuinely claiming that mental health problems which can be traced back to earlier-life decisions would ALSO be left out of your crazy ''we treat some, but not all'' scheme? Do you realise that what you're advocating is the most arrogant, judgemental and elitist system of recent times?

Exactly, and we're the ones that need to 'understand'. People like him are a joke :rolleyes:
Reply 73
I haven't forgot about people with mental illnesses I said that people who's condition was not their fault could be treated on the NHS which was now a service for those who needed it. My mum used to have mental health problem which wasn't her fault.
You seem very ignorant and naive. Have you ever watched "Sicko" by Michael Moore? Watch it.

Just because you'd be able to afford health insurance doesn't mean you're more entitled to it. What about all the good sensible people who don't indulge in dangerous stupid things but can't afford health insurance? It doesn't really matter how someone gets injured, trying to determine whether they were indulging in stupid acts would be complicated and difficult, not to mention controversial when it comes to dealing with false conclusions.

If you want an American healthcare system, go to America. There's no bloody way this country it's degrading itself to Americas healthcare standards. The whole point of the free healthcare system in the UK is to rule out speciality or discrimination, so I don't really understand your "what makes them so special" rant.
No Future
Ha ha ha.

Where do people go when they have no health insurance...?


Nowhere. I assumed they just died. I thought you still had to pay to go to A&E in America, otherwise what's the point in having insurance.
Reply 76
No Future
Should we give you more drugs or something?


No. Do you want more drugs or something?

What would be better is to put people who pay tax, or have a good reason for not working (i.e disabled, redundant etc) above those who refuse to work on waiting lists.
Reply 77
Noooooooooooo! No American immoral inequalities here please. We care about people in this country!
No matter how much people in the UK complain about the NHS at least it's nowhere near as awful as the system in America. People get turned away from hospitals if they don't have insurance, or a doctor won't start any sort of treatment until they're sure the patient has insurance. The costs are ridiculous and most of the time the insurance companies won't even cover them all and sometimes refuse to pay anything (I remember one woman on Michael Moore's Sicko who had a brain tumour and her insurance wouldn't pay for the operation because they said her condition wasn't life threatening...think she died). And that's just the people who can actually afford health insurance (and don't have pre-existing conditions of course).

Health care IS a right and I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.
Reply 79
I like our healthcare system - a good standard of healthcare for everyone, and if it's not up to scratch you can go private. I don't grudge people for my parents or mine taxes, because at the end of the day i could be born into a crap lifestyle where I had no money and need lots of healthcare.

Plus, an American system wouldn't be advantageous to me at all, the NHS is there most of the time, plus through parents work I get private healthcare to an extremely high standard so long as I'm in full time education - after that I'll start paying for my own. You can't put a price on a life imo, everyones entitled to a high standard.

Anyway, looking on the treasury website, by far and away most 'benifit' money doesn't go to the NHS, or giving people free healthcare, but pensions, so if one is resentful that they feel that they're paying someone elses dues they should be crying euthanasia and private pension funds, not american healthcare system :rolleyes:

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