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Religion is a force for good in the world - Tony Blair vs. Christopher Hitchens



What do you all think?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11843586

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tb+v+ch&aq=f

I'm with Hitchens :smile:
(edited 13 years ago)

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i can finally see an athiest on this forum. religion is just a vein on society and im shocked it still exists. thanks for putting the video up:biggrin:
Reply 2
Avatar for ily_em
ily_em
OP
17
Original post by Hi.im.a.Faggot
i can finally see an athiest on this forum. religion is just a vein on society and im shocked it still exists. thanks for putting the video up:biggrin:


That's ok :smile: I'm sure we're not the only atheists though :P
Reply 3
Avatar for Sithius
Sithius
16
Original post by Hi.im.a.Faggot
i can finally see an athiest on this forum. religion is just a vein on society and im shocked it still exists. thanks for putting the video up:biggrin:


You are not only a faggot, but also stupid. Most people on this site are atheists.
Reply 4
Avatar for thisisnew
thisisnew
11
Almost on part 4 and Blairs only argument appears to be "I know and admit religion can be used for evil but it also inspires people to do good things".

Oh he's just ruined his whole main point... seconds later he says something like "would people still be inspired without their faith? Of course but the fact remains that religion is what inspired them" :facepalm: And now he's basically saying "religion is here to stay now so we might as well make the most of it". Not watching any more of this.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 5
Avatar for ily_em
ily_em
OP
17
Original post by thisisnew
Almost on part 4 and Blairs only argument appears to be "I know and admit religion can be used for evil but it also inspires people to do good things".

Oh he's just ruined his whole main point... seconds later he says something like "would people still be inspired without their faith? Of course but the fact remains that religion is what inspired them" :facepalm:


Hah I know :smile: Watching the closing speeches now (part 8). TB may as well not have turned up!
Reply 6
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ily_em
OP
17
This thread fails :sigh:
Reply 7
Avatar for Makubex
Makubex
Original post by ily_em
This thread fails :sigh:


you get a rep for this.
Reply 8
Avatar for ily_em
ily_em
OP
17
Original post by Makubex
you get a rep for this.


right, erm thanks?

What are your opinions on the topic? Have you seen any of the debate?
Reply 9
Avatar for Mujeriego
Mujeriego
10
This is so cruel. Pitting Bliar up against Hitchens is like setting a basilisk on a budgerigar.
Reply 10
Avatar for Hylean
Hylean
15
Nyah, religion can be a force for good in the world, but it is also an excuse for a ****load of bad. Is that the religion's fault? No. It's the people that use it. Anyone who really thinks we would be better off without religion is an idiot. We would just find other reasons to hate and attack each other. We wouldn't necessarily be worse off, though.

An interesting point though, the Abrahamic religions are the ones that brought in "religious" wars. Pagans generally didn't fight each other over religion.
If we could forgive the billions of deaths at the hands of religion, if they changed their differing views on contraception, homosexuality, women’s rights, family planning ect. If they stopped all wars and became tolerant of each other and with atheists and agnostics. If they gave up their vast riches and royalties and used the money to help the world. Only then will I say religion is a force for good.
Original post by Hylean
Nyah, religion can be a force for good in the world, but it is also an excuse for a ****load of bad. Is that the religion's fault? No. It's the people that use it. Anyone who really thinks we would be better off without religion is an idiot. We would just find other reasons to hate and attack each other. We wouldn't necessarily be worse off, though.

An interesting point though, the Abrahamic religions are the ones that brought in "religious" wars. Pagans generally didn't fight each other over religion.


Every war in history can be traced back to dogma, or irrationality of one kind or another.

The big three are nationalism, religion and racism. These fragment into a broad plethora of ideologies, but they are all nourished by one of these 3 “roots” of lunacy.

Get rid of these and I believe we will have very little conflict in this world.
Reply 13
Avatar for Ramses II
Ramses II
8
Original post by IFondledAGibbon
If we could forgive the billions of deaths at the hands of religion, if they changed their differing views on contraception, homosexuality, women’s rights, family planning ect. If they stopped all wars and became tolerant of each other and with atheists and agnostics. If they gave up their vast riches and royalties and used the money to help the world. Only then will I say religion is a force for good.

Not billions. There are more people alive now than have ever died, so less than 6.5 billion have died in the whole of history. Otherwise I agree with your points.
see next post, something messed up there.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Hylean
Anyone who really thinks we would be better off without religion is an idiot.


I'm not sure I agree with that. Wars and murders aren't the only negative things religion can be responsible for.

If you're under the impression that there's an all-poweful deity in the sky who's looking out for and taking care of you, you're probably less inclined to worry about the important problems facing our planet today - namely over-crowding, disease and global warming. I mean, there's no way God would let humanity become extinct, right?

I'd argue that widespread religious belief may have a detrimental effect on the progression of science. It certainly takes the edge off of our responsibility to look after our planet.
Original post by Ramses II
Not billions. There are more people alive now than have ever died, so less than 6.5 billion have died in the whole of history. Otherwise I agree with your points.

Yeah, you're right. I'll change it.

EDIT: Wait, I agree the billion figure may be a bit off. However, stating "There are more people alive now than have ever died" is surely wrong.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 17
Avatar for Hylean
Hylean
15
Original post by JohnnytheFox
I'm not sure I agree with that. Wars and murders aren't the only negative things religion can be responsible for.

If you're under the impression that there's an all-poweful deity in the sky who's looking out for and taking care of you, you're probably less inclined to worry about the important problems facing our planet today - namely over-crowding, disease and global warming. I mean, there's no way God would let humanity become extinct, right?

I'd argue that widespread religious belief may have a detrimental effect on the progression of science. It certainly takes the edge off of our responsibility to look after our planet.


I honestly disagree. I don't know many religious people who honestly expect God or the Gods to sort the world out. In fact, I don't think I know any, and I don't know of any religion that actually espouses such an idea either.


Original post by IFondledAGibbon
Every war in history can be traced back to dogma, or irrationality of one kind or another.

The big three are nationalism, religion and racism. These fragment into a broad plethora of ideologies, but they are all nourished by one of these 3 “roots” of lunacy.

Get rid of these and I believe we will have very little conflict in this world.


You need to do some deeper research. Wars have been cause by desire for land, money, resources and power. Religion, Nationalism and Racism are all just fronts for those deeper reasons. If you can't see that, then you're really blind.

No war can be traced back to Religion, Racism or Nationalism. There is always something behind those that is the actual reason for the war.

The idiocy of your post astounds me.
Religion is a force for good in this world, undoubtedly. If you look at the amount of aid agencies set up in the name of religion, or how religion is used as a control method in the third world (Yes this is a good thing) to hold things together.

Equally though, it's also a force for evil. Just look at the amount of hate that is spread in the name of religion, and not to mention the amount of death caused by religion in the form of war or government endorsed excecutions.

In my opinion I don't think you can come to one answer on this. It's so complex and varies so much from region to region that I think the debate is somewhat pointless.
Reply 19
Avatar for channy
channy
10
Original post by JohnnytheFox
I'm not sure I agree with that. Wars and murders aren't the only negative things religion can be responsible for.

If you're under the impression that there's an all-poweful deity in the sky who's looking out for and taking care of you, you're probably less inclined to worry about the important problems facing our planet today - namely over-crowding, disease and global warming. I mean, there's no way God would let humanity become extinct, right?

I'd argue that widespread religious belief may have a detrimental effect on the progression of science. It certainly takes the edge off of our responsibility to look after our planet.


Nice sig.

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