should terrorist be tortured to save innocent lifes?

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As for your second point, there is a huge difference between physically attacking someone out of anger/fear (or other emotions one might be under in that situation) and actually torturing them.

Not really. Both of those acts have the same purpose (i.e. finding information). How do you know that the act you do out of love for your family, the CIA (for example) don't do it out of love for their country? Both acts are done out of necessity.

Reply 61

Axes

Original post by In2deep

Stop assuming.

Im not. You asked for 'evidence'. I stated that practically all countries agencies do it, so they must have a reason.

And how many times must you hear it before you accept that when others commit atrocities, it is not a valid excuse to do so yourself. \

I never said it is. You must have issues with reading comprehension. I responded to your endorsement of an article that stated that torture doesnt work. I responded that it depends. Even if it works, that does not mean I think it is a valid tactic.

It is people like you who are ready to dish out horrendous punishments without even verifying the facts surrounding their "efficiency" (and even if it was efficient, it is still very much immoral) that cause so much pain in this world.

Lol, ok. See above.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 62

Axes

Original post by In2deep

Yes, because, as I said, no matter how efficient the torture method is, I would still vehemently oppose it.

So you would oppose sleep deprivation of a terrorist in a ticking time bomb scenario, even if that tactic can work?

Reply 63

uer23

Tbh I have no problem with it, but then they way things went in G Bay the innocent ones fell a victim to these methods.

Reply 64

missygeorgia

Of course not. The thought of it disgusts me. It's a complete violation of human rights.

Reply 65

missygeorgia

Original post by Axes

Evidence? This is similar to how people are brought to confess crimes in regular investigations, only far more gruelling. Oh, and most nations on earth do it, so I suppose theres a reason for it.

..So you don't have any evidence.

Reply 66

Axes

Original post by missygeorgia

..So you don't have any evidence.

Academic research tests on 'torture' have never, to the best of my knowledge, been conducted. What we do know is that various methods are used even by countries that formally denounce torture, so it must have some use. Draw your own conclusions.

Reply 67

In2deep

Original post by Annoying-Mouse

Firstly, I still think both are wrong. This does not mean I will not do so myself, I know this sounds hypocritical but I don't know how I would honestly react in such a scenario..as I said before, I hope I never have to.

Secondly, dishing out a few punches and kicks is very different from organised torture, you have to be blind to not see the difference.

Original post by Axes

So you would oppose sleep deprivation of a terrorist in a ticking time bomb scenario, even if that tactic can work?

I can't comment on what I do not know, if sleep deprivation is classed as torture then there must be a reason. If it torture then yes, I do oppose it.

Reply 68

Renal

Original post by cannella

The fact that they are does not imply that they should! Prison is not designed to be degrading, its function is to isolate the criminal from society and insure that he/she doesn't bring any harm to the rest of the population, while creating a deterrent that discourages from committing crime.

If the living condition inside a prison are inhumane then it's a fault of the system that should be rectified. (Which doesn't mean that criminals should live with the same luxuries they had at home, but that lack of freedom is what they were condemned to and brutal treatment is not in any way justified.)

That lack of freedom is also a violation of their human rights, isn't it?

(p.s. prison is also supposed to rehabilitate, not just isolate :wink:

)

Reply 69

missygeorgia

Original post by Axes

Innocent people are tortured by many, many countries. This must have some use, right?

Oh, and there's been plenty of academic research into torture. People do PHDs in this sort of thing. I'd look it up, but I'm not the one making the claims.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 70

Renal

Original post by In2deep

I can't comment on what I do not know, if sleep deprivation is classed as torture then there must be a reason. If it torture then yes, I do oppose it.

Nobody has ever really defined torture, so there's no real difference between a terrorist suspect undergoing sleep deprivation at Camp Bastion and a suspected mugger being arrested and questioned at seven on a Saturday morning when he's hungover to buggery - the effects are essentially the same.

Similarly, we haven't drawn a line between gross physical torture and necessary physical restraint.

Reply 71

Renal

Original post by missygeorgia

Innocent people are tortured by many, many countries. This must have some use, right?

This state interrogates hundreds of innocent people every day. :wink:

Oh, and there's been plenty of academic research into torture. People do PHDs in this sort of thing. I'd look it up, but I'm not the one making the claims.

I've seen two academic papers, one Restricted and one Secret. What have you seen?

(Aren't you the one claiming that there is real and good evidence against the efficacy of torture? Surely that means it's your place to show us...)

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 72

User414413

Original post by In2deep

Secondly, dishing out a few punches and kicks is very different from organised torture, you have to be blind to not see the difference.

Why are punching and kicking? Because you haven't been trained nor do you know of any torture techniques. The same way a BJJ fighter may react differently to someone holding him in a headlock to your average Joe. If you were a trained torturer and you understood the methods/techniques, then you would most likely carry it out. You punch and kick because it's all you can really do.

Reply 73

Insanity514

Well if they are guilty then yes.

Reply 74

missygeorgia

Original post by Renal

This state interrogates hundreds of innocent people every day. :wink:

This state doesn't torture hundreds of innocent people everyday.

Original post by Renal

I've seen two academic papers, one Restricted and one Secret. What have you seen?

Dude, you can even google it. There's crap loads.

Reply 75

Axes

Original post by In2deep

I can't comment on what I do not know, if sleep deprivation is classed as torture then there must be a reason. If it torture then yes, I do oppose it.

So, the mere stamp of 'torture' would make you oppose something without checking on what it actually is? Torture is a subjective term, and I would support or oppose something based on what it actually entails. You would agree with me that depriving someone of sleep or making him listen to music 24/7 is not the same as shocking him with electricity or inserting glass into his rectum?

Reply 76

MorningElegance

If terrorists are prepared to die for their cause, then torture may not even help. Besides, it's a horrific idea, could be subject to abuse, and could create more anger in them.

Reply 77

Axes

[QUOTE]

Original post by missygeorgia

Innocent people are tortured by many, many countries. This must have some use, right?

In autocracies? They definatly have a reason, even if we see it as illegitemate. They get political dissidents to confess to everything. But here we are speaking of even the bastions of democracy who all engage in certain methods of 'torture' as an information gathering tactic. These are agencies with decades of experience in information gathering, and they still use this tactic. Draw your own conclusions.

Oh, and there's been plenty of academic research into torture. People do PHDs in this sort of thing. I'd look it up, but I'm not the one making the claims.

Academic articles but no actual test subjects.

Reply 78

mrozzi

Original post by blackknight

Or should i say should a terrorist be tourted for information that could safe your family member ?

if not

what rights do you think a terrorist should have ?

yes they should, my only issue is proving their guilt BEFORE torturing them

Reply 79

missygeorgia

[QUOTE="Axes;28723078"]

And these 'bastions of democracy' also torture innocent people. See guantanamo bay, in which both the US and the UK were involved in torture of people who have now been released without even being charged.