Poorer students will now get 2 free years uni. another attack on middle income family

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There is help available for everyone who faces hardship, regardless of income. Most universities have money set aside specifically for students who find themselves struggling, but I don't agree with the argument that students from poorer families somehow don't deserve some extra help.

And that's good that they do. And it's fine that you disagree.
My original point was that I don't see why students with parents who earn way above average but recieve no parental help, shouldn't get the same financial aid as those who's parents simply couldn't support them.

Reply 81

win5ton

Original post by Plonk

They will only start to pay off their fees when are earning a substantial level of capital. Thus, the students from poorer families will not be poor when they start to pay off their debt. Hence they will not need "extra help". :rolleyes:

Reply 82

Plonk

Original post by Winter Rain

Ah, I see. I suppose the most obvious reason would be because of how open it would be to abuse, unless there was a way to prove your parents wouldn't help you out, which seems unlikely.

Reply 83

.Ali.

Omg that is ridiculous. :facepalm:

We're middle class, and the middle class get hit ALL the time... :frown:

It's so stupid, I don't see why 'poor' people get all the help, from OUR taxmoney, I might add...

Yes, help some people, but don't give it them FREE. :lolwut:

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 84

win5ton

Original post by Plonk

Ah, I see. I suppose the most obvious reason would be because of how open it would be to abuse, unless there was a way to prove your parents wouldn't help you out, which seems unlikely.

You have just killed your own argument. You have shown that "rich" people who received no paternal help would suffer under this system whereas the "poor" would not suffer. This shows the system is broken.

Reply 85

Plonk

Original post by win5ton

The level of debt puts off people from poorer families, and this policy may reverse that effect, or at least stop this "I can't go to university now" idea. I would actually rather this money was used to increase grants for everyone, and not as an attempt to calm people down. So we don't completely disagree.

Reply 86

Plonk

Original post by win5ton

That wasn't an argument, that was me explaining why helping people who's parents were refusing to help wouldn't be an easy thing to do. However, I know the system is broken, I'm certainly not arguing that the system is perfect.

Reply 87

WelshBluebird

Original post by .Ali.

Omg that is ridiculous. :facepalm:

We're middle class, and the middle class get hit ALL the time... :frown:

It's so stupid, I don't see why 'poor' people get all the help, from OUR taxmoney, I might add...

Yes, help some people, but don't give it them FREE. :lolwut:

Judging from your posts, and from the fact you don't understand how people can live on £26000 a year, I'm going to take a huge leap in the dark and suggest that your family is upper class, not middle.

Reply 88

Mann18

Original post by .Ali.

Omg that is ridiculous. :facepalm:

We're middle class, and the middle class get hit ALL the time... :frown:

It's so stupid, I don't see why 'poor' people get all the help, from OUR taxmoney, I might add...

Yes, help some people, but don't give it them FREE. :lolwut:

This, by far, is the stupidest thing you've ever said.

Reply 89

Ministerdonut

I have said this before and I will say it again,it shouldn't matter what your background is, university education should be entirely free, and grants should be given to all students. This could be done it was in the past,by making sure only the academic elite go to university and the rest either go into employment or technical colleges for technical qualifications within their home towns. I would apply these elite standards to all foreign students to make it fair and tell the lentil munchers who run our universitys to go **** themselves.Getting a degree used to mean something.

That would also do something about the skills shortage we have in this country and mean we in the long term would not need to import people from other countries to do these jobs such as plumbing or sparkys.People may ask where the jobs can come from,I would suggest we need to reverse the idea,that we should sell off our manufacturing industries. This country used to have thriving steel industries, as well as companies producing all sorts of weapons that were not under the unbrella of BAE. as well as a motoring industry and aerospace. It is also stupid in my opinion to not have the capability to produce key things when the world is so unstable.

And I would bin the nursing degrees as well ,and make nursing training entirely done in hospitals,both theory and practical work,with more of an emphasis on skills such as wiping bottoms and feeding. Because Iam sick and tired of reading stories of elderly people dying in their own excrement.

Iam very sorry that the last government had this insane idea of sending 50 percent of people into higher education as it means we are in the situation we are in today. It isn't our fault. And the current government won't make the brave decisions needed.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 90

CyclopsRock

Original post by Planto

How the hell is this an attack on "middle income families"? Nothing has changed for you. There is no disadvantage to you here. Unless you consider poor people to be your enemy, of course. Helping someone out is not attacking everyone else.

Where do you think that money comes from... ?

Reply 91

.Ali.

Original post by WelshBluebird

Haha, we're nowhere near upper! :tongue:

It's just £26,000 doesn't seem a lot, especially as most households usually have two children. I'm an only child, and I can't imagine living on that, so.. :/

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 92

win5ton

Original post by Plonk

So do you accept that poor people are put off because they believe in a fallacy. They won't have to pay money back if they can't afford it.

Reply 93

Rooster523

Original post by morecambebay

So, up and down the country, people from families like your own are being prevented from going to uni? yeah? *******s.

pretty much yeah. Maintenance grants don't take family size into account. A £27k a year earner with one child will be more well off than a £36k a year earner with 4 kids, fact.

Reply 94

.Ali.

Original post by Mann18

This, by far, is the stupidest thing you've ever said.

Why? Sorry, but I'd sooner my parents paid my own fees rather than someone elses. :rolleyes:

The middle classes always lose out.

Reply 95

Planto

Original post by CyclopsRock

Where do you think that money comes from... ?

What a drolly predictable response. I'm sure everyone who doesn't get this grant will notice a marked reduction in their quality of life.

Reply 96

win5ton

Original post by Mann18

This, by far, is the stupidest thing you've ever said.

At least she was contributing to the argument unlike what you and me are doing. :rolleyes:

Reply 97

hypocriticaljap

Original post by .Ali.

Haha, we're nowhere near upper! :tongue:

It's just £26,000 doesn't seem a lot, especially as most households usually have two children. I'm an only child, and I can't imagine living on that, so.. :/

scumbag.

Reply 98

Mann18

Original post by .Ali.

Why? Sorry, but I'd sooner my parents paid my own fees rather than someone elses. :rolleyes:

The middle classes always lose out.

Only 18,000 students will be affected for one thing.
Secondly, statistically, very few of those students will be eligible for the two year help.
Thirdly, regardless, only one year is funded by the government, the second is funded by the university itself, and only if the student attends a university that requires £9,000 a year.

So, this is a drop in the proverbial ocean of students.

But disregarding that, how on Earth is this the middle classes "losing out?"

It's not as though you're being hampered, it's not as though this was available to you before, but it's been removed. In fact, it's not "the working class" that will be eligible. It's one very small sector of the working class. People who recieve such low amounts of money, that their children probably wouldn't dream of attending university.

I just don't see why so many, when they have so much, are sickened when they see an attempt to help those with so little.

Reply 99

CyclopsRock

Original post by Planto

What a drolly predictable response. I'm sure everyone who doesn't get this grant will notice a marked reduction in their quality of life.

And if it's not directly responsible for a marked drop in life quality, it must mean it's not happening!!

That's how it happens. That's how you end up with a society where people spend the first several hours of their working day working for the government, the treasuries coffers are larger than they've ever been and they still spend more money than they gain in tax for 10 out of 12 years of growth. I'm not saying this is right or this is wrong; I'm merely saying that assuming you can spend infinitely because "hey, an extra several billion won't hurt!" is woefully ignorant and is the refuge of people who refuse to justify why my tax money should be spent on whatever it is they want. It doesn't matter if it's for social housing, university, nuclear missiles or transport links; people shouldn't disregard the cost of taxing people in such a flippant manner.