We're all going to die one day..so why is suicide wrong?
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Original post by wannabebrit
i don't agree. they should understand i'm in a much happier place
And where is that exactly...?
All these people saying that suicide is ok if your life is really difficult. There are whole NATIONS of people with worse lives than you. Why dont they all just kill themselves then, instead of trying to make their lives better?
Original post by paella
At bottom it is impossible to know how people truly feel. People should have autonomy over their own body, if they really feel that life is not worth living, no one else can really say that it is. If you are really planning to kill yourself and intend to do so, then you should be allowed to.
Which is why you need to talk to them about it. People need to make sure that there are other solutions before looking into suicide. Not jumping to the local pharmacy when the problem appears.
Original post by Mm_Minty
Well what?
People usually fight against death as an instinct, and most people think that we're higher being who are capable of overriding our instincts in favour of our higher faculties.
People usually fight against death as an instinct, and most people think that we're higher being who are capable of overriding our instincts in favour of our higher faculties.
Fine, you think suicide is ok, I don't. End of
Original post by Lewroll
All these people saying that suicide is ok if your life is really difficult. There are whole NATIONS of people with worse lives than you. Why dont they all just kill themselves then, instead of trying to make their lives better?
It's a personal choice.
This is just an example to counter yours -
Most people in a whole nation have a sense of community. They support eachother to pull through. The minority group that I am part of is heavily discriminated, with an unbelievable amount of stigma, prejudice and ignorance directed towards it. Yes, the people in Africa have a worse time, I am not disputing that. But I don't think that the bad things which lead to suicide are just caused on a rating of badness. The loneliness and fear of society that prejudice brings is, I think, a greater cause of suicide.
This is just an example. What I am trying to illustrate is that every situation is different. There are people in incredibly bad situations that will not choose to commit suicide. Just because they choose not to should not mean that someone else can't.
If someone had slightly fuzzy vision and went to get their eyes tested and maybe some contact lenses, you wouldn't start telling them how there are people in Africa who can't get their eyes tested, or there are people that are blind, so can't see at all. Doesn't matter that there are people who can't get glasses or are blind. The fact is that the person with slightly bad vision should still go and get an eye test.
Original post by lightburns
It's a personal choice.
This is just an example to counter yours -
Most people in a whole nation have a sense of community. They support eachother to pull through. The minority group that I am part of is heavily discriminated, with an unbelievable amount of stigma, prejudice and ignorance directed towards it. Yes, the people in Africa have a worse time, I am not disputing that. But I don't think that the bad things which lead to suicide are just caused on a rating of badness. The loneliness and fear of society that prejudice brings is, I think, a greater cause of suicide.
This is just an example. What I am trying to illustrate is that every situation is different. There are people in incredibly bad situations that will not choose to commit suicide. Just because they choose not to should not mean that someone else can't.
If someone had slightly fuzzy vision and went to get their eyes tested and maybe some contact lenses, you wouldn't start telling them how there are people in Africa who can't get their eyes tested, or there are people that are blind, so can't see at all. Doesn't matter that there are people who can't get glasses or are blind. The fact is that the person with slightly bad vision should still go and get an eye test.
This is just an example to counter yours -
Most people in a whole nation have a sense of community. They support eachother to pull through. The minority group that I am part of is heavily discriminated, with an unbelievable amount of stigma, prejudice and ignorance directed towards it. Yes, the people in Africa have a worse time, I am not disputing that. But I don't think that the bad things which lead to suicide are just caused on a rating of badness. The loneliness and fear of society that prejudice brings is, I think, a greater cause of suicide.
This is just an example. What I am trying to illustrate is that every situation is different. There are people in incredibly bad situations that will not choose to commit suicide. Just because they choose not to should not mean that someone else can't.
If someone had slightly fuzzy vision and went to get their eyes tested and maybe some contact lenses, you wouldn't start telling them how there are people in Africa who can't get their eyes tested, or there are people that are blind, so can't see at all. Doesn't matter that there are people who can't get glasses or are blind. The fact is that the person with slightly bad vision should still go and get an eye test.
The thing is, with depressed people in the UK, life can only get so bad. No matter what happens, you will still have access to health care, shelter and food. Even tramps can get somewhere to live if they tried hard enough. So I'm not saying that someones situation cant be terrible, but you know that here your life can only get so bad, once it gets there it can only get better, it couldnt possibly get worse. You will never be dying of malnutrition, fearing for your life, or without somewhere to live.
Compare that with people in other countries. Their worse case situation would be them dying from hunger, their children all dying, being murdered etc. Yet they dont kill themselves do they? And to say that their communities have more support is incorrect. In the UK someone may feel lonely, but they can always go talk to someone (a doctor, therapist) and they can get the help they need. Suicide is the easy way out by someone who is probably mentally unstable (becuase we've already established that its natural for humans to want to survive). Obviously I'm not talking about euthanasia or assisted suicide. If someone has low quality of life to the point where they cant do anything for themselves is justified. However, people killing themselves for other reasons, e.g. because they lost all their money (look at the wall-street crash in the 1920s, lots of people killed themselves) isnt justified.
Things can only get so bad. Suicide is the same as giving up.
well.....I don't thing suicide is wrong....there are sometimes where is is needed....if you are terminally ill for instance...
and I know that if somebody is depressed they may commit suicide....
.....for instance Kurt Cobain....(this may be a bad example seen as it's still questionable whether or not he did kill himself or whether Courtney set it up...[which personally i think is very likely]) however.....i'm trailing off..........
....maybe suicide does mean you can go out in a BANG! ....and sometimes I think maybe suicide does make somebody remembered.....for instance ....I often ask myself although it would of been brilliant for a certain musician to of lived and continued making amazing music....they may of just faded away....yet if they die or commit sicide it makes the music they make beforehand so much more powerful.
and I know that if somebody is depressed they may commit suicide....
.....for instance Kurt Cobain....(this may be a bad example seen as it's still questionable whether or not he did kill himself or whether Courtney set it up...[which personally i think is very likely]) however.....i'm trailing off..........
....maybe suicide does mean you can go out in a BANG! ....and sometimes I think maybe suicide does make somebody remembered.....for instance ....I often ask myself although it would of been brilliant for a certain musician to of lived and continued making amazing music....they may of just faded away....yet if they die or commit sicide it makes the music they make beforehand so much more powerful.
I think it's far better to live a long life......commiting suicide can show lack of respect for your loved ones and taking for granted your own life...
The world is beautiful....there's still so much to see...
Yeah....you may go out with a BANG!....
.....but really....isn't it better to die of peaceful old age....and have lots of stories of life to tell.
I know sometimes suicide has uses......for instance......if you actually are dying already (like terminally ill)
I know there are those who have depression who attempt suicide....yet I believe everyone has atleast once thought about killing theirself....I know I have through tough times....
But live through the tough times...and don't commit suicide as a way of escaping those pressures....you only end up leaving loved ones under even more pressures and mourning your loss.....life is tough....but living through to the very end gains respect because you've seen all you possibly could see and been through all there is to go through
...whoa i talked a lot there.....but that's what I feel anyways
The world is beautiful....there's still so much to see...
Yeah....you may go out with a BANG!....
.....but really....isn't it better to die of peaceful old age....and have lots of stories of life to tell.
I know sometimes suicide has uses......for instance......if you actually are dying already (like terminally ill)
I know there are those who have depression who attempt suicide....yet I believe everyone has atleast once thought about killing theirself....I know I have through tough times....
But live through the tough times...and don't commit suicide as a way of escaping those pressures....you only end up leaving loved ones under even more pressures and mourning your loss.....life is tough....but living through to the very end gains respect because you've seen all you possibly could see and been through all there is to go through
...whoa i talked a lot there.....but that's what I feel anyways
Original post by wannabebrit
Why is suicide wrong? We're all going to die.some of us just want to die earlier than others. You say think of your family and friends who will be devastated if you commit suicide..will they be jumping for joy if I died a natural death?
The probability of life existing at all is so microscopically low that I stopped asking myself metaphysical questions. Just roll with life and see what happens. You'll die someday, so you've got a safety net. But don't quit early, it's just... weak. There's no other word.
If you really wanted to die you'd already be dangling from the ceiling. But if you're asking for our opinion you clearly do not believe what you have written in your post.
If you feel miserable, remember that it is not the events of life that affect us but what we think of them.
Go enjoy your life you were so lucky to be given and make something of it. It's because your life is too easy that you don't value it at all.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Lewroll
The thing is, with depressed people in the UK, life can only get so bad. No matter what happens, you will still have access to health care, shelter and food. Even tramps can get somewhere to live if they tried hard enough. So I'm not saying that someones situation cant be terrible, but you know that here your life can only get so bad, once it gets there it can only get better, it couldnt possibly get worse. You will never be dying of malnutrition, fearing for your life, or without somewhere to live.
Compare that with people in other countries. Their worse case situation would be them dying from hunger, their children all dying, being murdered etc. Yet they dont kill themselves do they? And to say that their communities have more support is incorrect. In the UK someone may feel lonely, but they can always go talk to someone (a doctor, therapist) and they can get the help they need. Suicide is the easy way out by someone who is probably mentally unstable (becuase we've already established that its natural for humans to want to survive). Obviously I'm not talking about euthanasia or assisted suicide. If someone has low quality of life to the point where they cant do anything for themselves is justified. However, people killing themselves for other reasons, e.g. because they lost all their money (look at the wall-street crash in the 1920s, lots of people killed themselves) isnt justified.
Things can only get so bad. Suicide is the same as giving up.
Compare that with people in other countries. Their worse case situation would be them dying from hunger, their children all dying, being murdered etc. Yet they dont kill themselves do they? And to say that their communities have more support is incorrect. In the UK someone may feel lonely, but they can always go talk to someone (a doctor, therapist) and they can get the help they need. Suicide is the easy way out by someone who is probably mentally unstable (becuase we've already established that its natural for humans to want to survive). Obviously I'm not talking about euthanasia or assisted suicide. If someone has low quality of life to the point where they cant do anything for themselves is justified. However, people killing themselves for other reasons, e.g. because they lost all their money (look at the wall-street crash in the 1920s, lots of people killed themselves) isnt justified.
Things can only get so bad. Suicide is the same as giving up.
Doctors and therapists are about as useful as a turnip, in my experience. But, I know what you're saying.
If someone can weigh up their life and see that it isn't good, what reason is there to live? Is life intrinsically good, so that you should defend it at all costs? Life doesn't even have to be terrible for it to be justifiable to take it. It just has to be more bad than good.
It's natural for humans to want to survive. Just like it is natural to want to eat meat, and have sex as much as possible. We are also rational beings, and can prioritise. So yes, it's natural to eat meat, but vegetarians are not mentally unstable for going against their instincts, or not having the same instincts. In the same way, if someone decides that their life is not worth living, that does not automatically mean they are crazy.
In my opinion it is a selfish act and an act often commited rashly without proper thought as a result of "problems" which may be solved if people talked about them or sought advice or treatment. In my area we have had 3 men commit suicide in the past 2 months due to money issues and affairs leaving behind children, 2 of these men hung themselves in their homes and were found by their children who were only 12 and 10. In those situations suicide is not only selfish, it is cruel and psychologically damaging to those left behind.
Assisted suicide I believe is a human right but only in circumstances where every other option has been explored.
Assisted suicide I believe is a human right but only in circumstances where every other option has been explored.
Original post by lightburns
Doctors and therapists are about as useful as a turnip, in my experience. But, I know what you're saying.
If someone can weigh up their life and see that it isn't good, what reason is there to live? Is life intrinsically good, so that you should defend it at all costs? Life doesn't even have to be terrible for it to be justifiable to take it. It just has to be more bad than good.
It's natural for humans to want to survive. Just like it is natural to want to eat meat, and have sex as much as possible. We are also rational beings, and can prioritise. So yes, it's natural to eat meat, but vegetarians are not mentally unstable for going against their instincts, or not having the same instincts. In the same way, if someone decides that their life is not worth living, that does not automatically mean they are crazy.
If someone can weigh up their life and see that it isn't good, what reason is there to live? Is life intrinsically good, so that you should defend it at all costs? Life doesn't even have to be terrible for it to be justifiable to take it. It just has to be more bad than good.
It's natural for humans to want to survive. Just like it is natural to want to eat meat, and have sex as much as possible. We are also rational beings, and can prioritise. So yes, it's natural to eat meat, but vegetarians are not mentally unstable for going against their instincts, or not having the same instincts. In the same way, if someone decides that their life is not worth living, that does not automatically mean they are crazy.
Life itself is so fascinating that even a wretched one seems worth living. I've come to accept my life as meaningless, and non-existence as the ultimate reward yet I still love life with a passion. People who think their lives are worthless may not be crazy (in fact they are more lucid then most) but they seem misguided to me. I say "Might as well live..." or live your life because it's there.
Everytime I feel down, I read the myth of Sisyphus by Camus. try it.
Original post by lightburns
Doctors and therapists are about as useful as a turnip, in my experience. But, I know what you're saying.
If someone can weigh up their life and see that it isn't good, what reason is there to live? Is life intrinsically good, so that you should defend it at all costs? Life doesn't even have to be terrible for it to be justifiable to take it. It just has to be more bad than good.
It's natural for humans to want to survive. Just like it is natural to want to eat meat, and have sex as much as possible. We are also rational beings, and can prioritise. So yes, it's natural to eat meat, but vegetarians are not mentally unstable for going against their instincts, or not having the same instincts. In the same way, if someone decides that their life is not worth living, that does not automatically mean they are crazy.
If someone can weigh up their life and see that it isn't good, what reason is there to live? Is life intrinsically good, so that you should defend it at all costs? Life doesn't even have to be terrible for it to be justifiable to take it. It just has to be more bad than good.
It's natural for humans to want to survive. Just like it is natural to want to eat meat, and have sex as much as possible. We are also rational beings, and can prioritise. So yes, it's natural to eat meat, but vegetarians are not mentally unstable for going against their instincts, or not having the same instincts. In the same way, if someone decides that their life is not worth living, that does not automatically mean they are crazy.
If someone can weigh up their life and see that it isnt good, what reason can they give not to try and make their life better?
I understand what you are saying, and you make a fair point. However I still maintain that suicide is never the answer. A dead person is no good to anyone. A living person can be useful to everyone. So I'm not saying that they shouldnt kill themselves because they could be useful to society, what I'm saying is that the person can make their life worthwile. Hopefully I will never find myself in a position where i consider suicide, but if i do i will decide that if my life is no longer worth living, then I might as well spend my time making someone elses life better.
Why is this in H&R?
Anyway, clearly everyone has a right to commit suicide (as long as they don't physically harm others) and anyone who says anything different is an illiberal (religious) fart.
Anyway, clearly everyone has a right to commit suicide (as long as they don't physically harm others) and anyone who says anything different is an illiberal (religious) fart.
Original post by lightburns
You think that it's better to not tell your family what is going on? Put a happy mask over your troubles and let them all live in the dark?
If you are honest and speak to your family (which often eases people's pain somewhat - and they should want to help), then they know your are living an unhappy life and they know the causes of it.
At the end of the day, if someone's life is so bad they want to commit suicide, they should be able to without the guilt. Their pain is unbearable, whereas family will recover. I agree with the OP that it isn't that different from a natural death, but also with you that it is different, and more painful. Just I don't think it's majorly different.
If you are honest and speak to your family (which often eases people's pain somewhat - and they should want to help), then they know your are living an unhappy life and they know the causes of it.
At the end of the day, if someone's life is so bad they want to commit suicide, they should be able to without the guilt. Their pain is unbearable, whereas family will recover. I agree with the OP that it isn't that different from a natural death, but also with you that it is different, and more painful. Just I don't think it's majorly different.
You can't guarantee that at all. By giving in to your depression, you may in turn force that upon someone who loved you. Family might blame themselves and that might lead to long term depression for them.
Original post by Glowy Amoeba
Life itself is so fascinating that even a wretched one seems worth living. I've come to accept my life as meaningless, and non-existence as the ultimate reward yet I still love life with a passion. People who think their lives are worthless may not be crazy (in fact they are more lucid then most) but they seem misguided to me. I say "Might as well live..." or live your life because it's there.
Everytime I feel down, I read the myth of Sisyphus by Camus. try it.
Everytime I feel down, I read the myth of Sisyphus by Camus. try it.
I am an atheist, and I now am not depressed or anything. I like life now. Before, I did not. Life was still fascinating, but ultimately is was also incredibly painful. It is hard to look back on how I was. It is very possible to get to a point where life is so wretched that it most certainly is not worth living. It doesn't matter what you read when you reach this.
Original post by Lewroll
If someone can weigh up their life and see that it isnt good, what reason can they give not to try and make their life better?
I understand what you are saying, and you make a fair point. However I still maintain that suicide is never the answer. A dead person is no good to anyone. A living person can be useful to everyone. So I'm not saying that they shouldnt kill themselves because they could be useful to society, what I'm saying is that the person can make their life worthwile. Hopefully I will never find myself in a position where i consider suicide, but if i do i will decide that if my life is no longer worth living, then I might as well spend my time making someone elses life better.
I understand what you are saying, and you make a fair point. However I still maintain that suicide is never the answer. A dead person is no good to anyone. A living person can be useful to everyone. So I'm not saying that they shouldnt kill themselves because they could be useful to society, what I'm saying is that the person can make their life worthwile. Hopefully I will never find myself in a position where i consider suicide, but if i do i will decide that if my life is no longer worth living, then I might as well spend my time making someone elses life better.
There are situations where it is not possible to make life better, or that it will take so long to get better that the suffering is too much. For some people, it is completely understandable why they would want to take their own life. If they want to help people, they can make sure they are an organ donor / donated body to science, and put a charity in their will.
That's like saying murder is ok because everyone's going to die some day.
But seriously, suicide is a personal choice, I don't think it's wrong at all.
But seriously, suicide is a personal choice, I don't think it's wrong at all.
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