Black people/Santa/Jesus on the front of xmas cards & racial prejudice at xmas
hi guys
there seems to be a general assumption that father christmas is white, and Jesus Mary and Joseph are all white. now im not racist, and most white people would be the first to say things like 'race doesnt matter'. but in my experience people find the idea of black people on christmas cards uncomfortable.
im brown-skinned(indigenous south american), and last year i saw some ethnic xmas religious cards in oxfam. i gave them out, and noticed when i had previously given normal, non black cards, people would glance at the front, read the inside then saw 'aww thats so sweet, thanks'. but wwith the black cards, they would look long and hard at the front of the card, then back at me, then at the front of the card, glance at the inside, and uncomfortably and awkwardly put it back in the envelope and say 'thanks, merry xmas' without looking me in the eye. they also would assume that the fact i had given black cards instead of 'normal' ones meant i had a chip on my shoulder about race.
here are the type im talking about:
A dark father christmas
http://rlv.zcache.com/ethnic_christmas_stickers_2_sizes_available-p217974863858456459q0ou_400.jpg
http://papercards.com/store/graphics/card7570l-f.jpg
A dark Jesus Mary and Joseph
http://www.blackartdepot.com/africanamericangreetingcards/mainpage/blackchristmascards.jpg
http://www.ccrsupport.com/images/xmas75430.gif
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iYpeJVoyyO8/ST4jIElTOaI/AAAAAAAABDg/Wzi9J3yW2fY/s400/african-american-christmas-cards.jpg
A dark angel
http://www.sweetberrylane.com/images/P/7544lr.jpg
at this time of year i also get alot of white folk asking me 'are you flying home soon for xmas' (i live and was born in the uk) and even folks who have seen me in the church every sunday for several years sometimes ask me after xmas mass or midnight mass AT CHURCH 'so, do you celebrate xmas'? in fact lots of people ask me that last question even at work. but if i say to them 'yes, i celebrate xmas, do you?'they get offended... duh!! or like when i meet new people and they say 'where are you from?''London''no,where are yu from originally' 'I was born in London' *awkward silence* they get mega offended and think im making fun of them. in my last workplace (PwC)i was at an xmas lunch and the senior partner said to me 'so do you celebrate xmas''yes, i do' then a manager said 'what religion are you''Roman Catholic'*awkward silcence, partner and manager look at each other* 'no, what religion are you really, its ok you can tell us'
like wtf??? are there no brown christians????
does anyone else find there is alot of racial prejudice around at this time of year? and would you buy these ethnic xmas cards to give out?
there seems to be a general assumption that father christmas is white, and Jesus Mary and Joseph are all white. now im not racist, and most white people would be the first to say things like 'race doesnt matter'. but in my experience people find the idea of black people on christmas cards uncomfortable.
im brown-skinned(indigenous south american), and last year i saw some ethnic xmas religious cards in oxfam. i gave them out, and noticed when i had previously given normal, non black cards, people would glance at the front, read the inside then saw 'aww thats so sweet, thanks'. but wwith the black cards, they would look long and hard at the front of the card, then back at me, then at the front of the card, glance at the inside, and uncomfortably and awkwardly put it back in the envelope and say 'thanks, merry xmas' without looking me in the eye. they also would assume that the fact i had given black cards instead of 'normal' ones meant i had a chip on my shoulder about race.
here are the type im talking about:
A dark father christmas
http://rlv.zcache.com/ethnic_christmas_stickers_2_sizes_available-p217974863858456459q0ou_400.jpg
http://papercards.com/store/graphics/card7570l-f.jpg
A dark Jesus Mary and Joseph
http://www.blackartdepot.com/africanamericangreetingcards/mainpage/blackchristmascards.jpg
http://www.ccrsupport.com/images/xmas75430.gif
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iYpeJVoyyO8/ST4jIElTOaI/AAAAAAAABDg/Wzi9J3yW2fY/s400/african-american-christmas-cards.jpg
A dark angel
http://www.sweetberrylane.com/images/P/7544lr.jpg
at this time of year i also get alot of white folk asking me 'are you flying home soon for xmas' (i live and was born in the uk) and even folks who have seen me in the church every sunday for several years sometimes ask me after xmas mass or midnight mass AT CHURCH 'so, do you celebrate xmas'? in fact lots of people ask me that last question even at work. but if i say to them 'yes, i celebrate xmas, do you?'they get offended... duh!! or like when i meet new people and they say 'where are you from?''London''no,where are yu from originally' 'I was born in London' *awkward silence* they get mega offended and think im making fun of them. in my last workplace (PwC)i was at an xmas lunch and the senior partner said to me 'so do you celebrate xmas''yes, i do' then a manager said 'what religion are you''Roman Catholic'*awkward silcence, partner and manager look at each other* 'no, what religion are you really, its ok you can tell us'
like wtf??? are there no brown christians????
does anyone else find there is alot of racial prejudice around at this time of year? and would you buy these ethnic xmas cards to give out?
(edited 13 years ago)
Scroll to see replies
Yeah I'd buy them, why not.
My aunt only buys black baby dolls, because there aren't that many in comparison to whites ones in the shop. I wouldn't say that she has a chip on her shoulder because that would be illogical.
The thing is we live in the Uk which is predominately white so the 'norm' would be a white christmas because more people can relate to it. From living in London I guess it's slightly more tolerant but people like what they know, and what they know is white Jesus, Marys, Josephs....
There is a box people put others in who buy culturally diverse cards, ethnocentric. Which I think is unfair because no one bats an eye at the mass production of white figures on christmas cards.
My aunt only buys black baby dolls, because there aren't that many in comparison to whites ones in the shop. I wouldn't say that she has a chip on her shoulder because that would be illogical.
The thing is we live in the Uk which is predominately white so the 'norm' would be a white christmas because more people can relate to it. From living in London I guess it's slightly more tolerant but people like what they know, and what they know is white Jesus, Marys, Josephs....
There is a box people put others in who buy culturally diverse cards, ethnocentric. Which I think is unfair because no one bats an eye at the mass production of white figures on christmas cards.
Original post by CoffeeStinks
Yeah I'd buy them, why not.
My aunt only buys black baby dolls, because there aren't that many in comparison to whites ones in the shop. I wouldn't say that she has a chip on her shoulder because that would be illogical.
The thing is we live in the Uk which is predominately white so the 'norm' would be a white christmas because more people can relate to it. From living in London I guess it's slightly more tolerant but people like what they know, and what they know is white Jesus, Marys, Josephs....
There is a box people put others in who buy culturally diverse cards, ethnocentric. Which I think is unfair because no one bats an eye at the mass production of white figures on christmas cards.
My aunt only buys black baby dolls, because there aren't that many in comparison to whites ones in the shop. I wouldn't say that she has a chip on her shoulder because that would be illogical.
The thing is we live in the Uk which is predominately white so the 'norm' would be a white christmas because more people can relate to it. From living in London I guess it's slightly more tolerant but people like what they know, and what they know is white Jesus, Marys, Josephs....
There is a box people put others in who buy culturally diverse cards, ethnocentric. Which I think is unfair because no one bats an eye at the mass production of white figures on christmas cards.
lol @ your aunt! when i lived in the US, my granny was the same! she used to try to buy me black barbie style dolls because she wanted me to be proud of my race and not think that blond/blue eyes were the epitome of beauty. unfo this was early 90s and the closest she could find was a brown haired barbie.
the idea of a 'white' christmas image is global though, even though the majority of the world population is brown not caucasian, and probably the majority of christians are brown people (most of south and central america, most of africa, some areas of asia, pacific islands).
i dont get why people who wouldnt bat an eyelid waling past a black in the street, and do not hesistate to buy Beyonce or Ushers latest music, are the same people who feel awkward at ethnic xmas cards. is xmas the last realm of white privelege?
The British Father Christmas, since its inception, has been a white, old man with a fluffy beard. So, of course people who have been so used to this figure who has very clear and recognisable physical characteristics will be confused by a black Father Christmas - and consider it a cynical attempt at political correctness. I don't have too much of a problem, as the character is pure fiction; however, why do you feel the need to peddle 'ethnic' Christmas cards, if not to make some sort of statement?
And as for your other comments - some people are ignorant, get over it.
And as for your other comments - some people are ignorant, get over it.
I wouldn't find it uncomfortable, just a bit weird, considering it's been the same way all of my life and many years before besides. I'm not entirely sure what the point is of changing cards like that though, if race really didn't matter then why would they bother? Sometimes it feels like they are the racists, not the rest of us.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by 8086
I wouldn't find it uncomfortable, just a bit weird, considering it's been the same way all of my life and many years before besides. I'm not entirely sure what the point is of changing cards like that though, if race really didn't matter then why would they bother? Sometimes it feels like they are the racists, not the rest of us.
if race doesnt matter then why is this image uncomfortable? if race doesnt matter then why are there not a diversity of different races represented in xmas cards? maybe people might like to give someone a xmas card with an image they can relate to? it is easy to say 'race doesnt matter' when it is YOUR race that is unanamously represented on EVERY SINGLE mainstream xmas card. if you walk into clintons cards, i can see why you would think race is not an issue - because there is no race other than the white race on cards!!!!
as for your point 'it has always been that way, why change it', does that mean Barbie should always be blond because it was always that way? does that mean apartheid in South Africa shouldnt have ended? does that mean the president of the states had always been white, so Obama shouldnt have been allowed to become president because having a white president 'had always been the way, why change it?'
it is easy to ignore issues of race when you are enjoying white privlidge and you cannot see what you have. even though something 'has always been that way' doesnt mean it has to STAY that way for our future generations. sometimes these prejudices NEED to change to advance ethnic diversity. not black rights, not white rights but EQUALITY.
(edited 13 years ago)
Black man, in your house, with a bag full of items...it's difficult to see it any other way.
No, this is ridiculous.
You are picking holes in something because you've maybe noticed one thing before then now you're taking everything out of context, maybe the break between reading the two different cards is in your head because you seem to have this pre-conceived idea that white Christians think that none exist that are anything other than caucasians ones. Stop being daft.
Many Christmas cards you find are going to have a white santa and others in this country because that was the predominant norm when many card companies and such were developed in this country, and those companies are maybe carrying on the tradition of their past because Christmas is not exactly a modern concept, which is why you still see Santa putting out rocking horses and wood toys under the tree, these companies don't have to change these traditional scenes to PS3s and such do they? So they shouldn't have to change cards just because of a change through the times in the number of people of different ethnic backgrounds.
Plus as far as Mary and Joseph go, they often do appear white or brown-skinned on cards because of where they were from.
For the people who you think don't like these ethnic cards, just don't give them a card at all if indeed they don't appreciate it because it has an ethnic design, because they do not deserve your well wishes at Christmas I would say.
Christmas and gift giving is not about finding political correctness in cards.
You are picking holes in something because you've maybe noticed one thing before then now you're taking everything out of context, maybe the break between reading the two different cards is in your head because you seem to have this pre-conceived idea that white Christians think that none exist that are anything other than caucasians ones. Stop being daft.
Many Christmas cards you find are going to have a white santa and others in this country because that was the predominant norm when many card companies and such were developed in this country, and those companies are maybe carrying on the tradition of their past because Christmas is not exactly a modern concept, which is why you still see Santa putting out rocking horses and wood toys under the tree, these companies don't have to change these traditional scenes to PS3s and such do they? So they shouldn't have to change cards just because of a change through the times in the number of people of different ethnic backgrounds.
Plus as far as Mary and Joseph go, they often do appear white or brown-skinned on cards because of where they were from.
For the people who you think don't like these ethnic cards, just don't give them a card at all if indeed they don't appreciate it because it has an ethnic design, because they do not deserve your well wishes at Christmas I would say.
Christmas and gift giving is not about finding political correctness in cards.
Get out.
Original post by shinytoy
if race doesnt matter then why is this image uncomfortable? if race doesnt matter then why are there not a diversity of different races represented in xmas cards? maybe people might like to give someone a xmas card with an image they can relate to? it is easy to say 'race doesnt matter' when it is YOUR race that is unanamously represented on EVERY SINGLE mainstream xmas card. if you walk into clintons cards, i can see why you would think race is not an issue - because there is no race other than the white race on cards!!!!
as for your point 'it has always been that way, why change it', does that mean Barbie should always be blond because it was always that way? does that mean apartheid in South Africa shouldnt have ended? does that mean the president of the states had always been white, so Obama shouldnt have been allowed to become president because having a white president 'had always been the way, why change it?'
it is easy to ignore issues of race when you are enjoying white privlidge and you cannot see what you have. even though something 'has always been that way' doesnt mean it has to STAY that way for our future generations. sometimes these prejudices NEED to change to advance ethnic diversity. not black rights, not white rights but EQUALITY.
as for your point 'it has always been that way, why change it', does that mean Barbie should always be blond because it was always that way? does that mean apartheid in South Africa shouldnt have ended? does that mean the president of the states had always been white, so Obama shouldnt have been allowed to become president because having a white president 'had always been the way, why change it?'
it is easy to ignore issues of race when you are enjoying white privlidge and you cannot see what you have. even though something 'has always been that way' doesnt mean it has to STAY that way for our future generations. sometimes these prejudices NEED to change to advance ethnic diversity. not black rights, not white rights but EQUALITY.
You live in a white country, so put up with it.
We don't need to change anything. We don't need to change any part of our culture to suit people like you who choose to stay in our country. No one forced you or your family to come here. Don't tell us to change our country and culture to suit people who chose to migrate here.
We have done more than our fair share to accomodate ethnic minorities, more than any other country on earth.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
Black man, in your house, with a bag full of items...it's difficult to see it any other way.
LOL!! that is pretty funny, but massively inappropriate.Original post by shinytoy
if race doesnt matter then why is this image uncomfortable? if race doesnt matter then why are there not a diversity of different races represented in xmas cards? maybe people might like to give someone a xmas card with an image they can relate to? it is easy to say 'race doesnt matter' when it is YOUR race that is unanamously represented on EVERY SINGLE mainstream xmas card. if you walk into clintons cards, i can see why you would think race is not an issue - because there is no race other than the white race on cards!!!!
as for your point 'it has always been that way, why change it', does that mean Barbie should always be blond because it was always that way? does that mean apartheid in South Africa shouldnt have ended? does that mean the president of the states had always been white, so Obama shouldnt have been allowed to become president because having a white president 'had always been the way, why change it?'
it is easy to ignore issues of race when you are enjoying white privlidge and you cannot see what you have. even though something 'has always been that way' doesnt mean it has to STAY that way for our future generations. sometimes these prejudices NEED to change to advance ethnic diversity. not black rights, not white rights but EQUALITY.
as for your point 'it has always been that way, why change it', does that mean Barbie should always be blond because it was always that way? does that mean apartheid in South Africa shouldnt have ended? does that mean the president of the states had always been white, so Obama shouldnt have been allowed to become president because having a white president 'had always been the way, why change it?'
it is easy to ignore issues of race when you are enjoying white privlidge and you cannot see what you have. even though something 'has always been that way' doesnt mean it has to STAY that way for our future generations. sometimes these prejudices NEED to change to advance ethnic diversity. not black rights, not white rights but EQUALITY.
Surely the fact that you notice all these things means you have an unjust prejudice against white people and the apparent offensive Clinton's card company, and makes you no better than those who have unjust prejudice towards any other ethnicities just because you have gone into a shop and picked out some ridiculous train of thought.
Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Santa were white. If you portray them as black, it's like a white Martin Luther King.
Original post by RabbitCFH
Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Santa were white. If you portray them as black, it's like a white Martin Luther King.
actually Jesus and the holy family were born in Africa, so the image of Jesus should be that of an african, not a whiter than white blond caucasian
Carter BSc
Surely the fact that you notice all these things means you have an unjust prejudice against white people and the apparent offensive Clinton's card company, and makes you no better than those who have unjust prejudice towards any other ethnicities just because you have gone into a shop and picked out some ridiculous train of thought.
not really, im not offended by an image of a white father Xmas, or white nativity. but i would like to see a range of races represented at xmas, not just the white race.
xmas is for christians, not white people only.
and also wakey wakey, not all christians are white! i find it mega offensive that at church at xmas, white people ask me if i celebrate xmas and what religion i am just because im brown!
(edited 13 years ago)
I wouldnt be uncomfortable with it but i would find it odd because im used to seeing them as white.thats not racism its tradition and tbh it is taking political correctness a bit far, there are cards like that available for you to use but dont try pushing for half the population to have black cards they can have whatever card they damn well choose. Also some people are ignorant and dont understand things, try to get over it because they were just trying to understand and be nice to you, how is everyone meant to know that you are british if they dont ask? Its not being rude its just trying ro find out about uou
Original post by shinytoy
actually Jesus and the holy family were born in Africa, so the image of Jesus should be that of an african, not a whiter than white blond caucasian
Israel is not in Africa.
Original post by shinytoy
actually Jesus and the holy family were born in Africa, so the image of Jesus should be that of an african, not a whiter than white blond caucasian
!
!
Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus and Family were born in Africa, it mentioned Jerusalem and Bethlehem, that would make Jesus a middle eastern, or at least tanned.
As for the mythological person that is Santa which is part of a celebration brought by pagans and incorporated into Christianity which corrupted Christianity. Santa isn't real.
(edited 13 years ago)
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