NY Times writer refuses to hire superbly qualified babysitter, because he's male

if you want a cleaner for female changing rooms, and the best cleaner is a man should you hire him?

if you want a waiter for an italian restaurant should you hire the chinese guy even though he's the best waiter?

there are cases when you can discriminate

So it was an opinion piece not a peer reviewed study or more usefully a meta-analysis. I read a lot of research 'highlights' that just uncritically present a particular groups findings as prose in both NS and SA.



But when it comes down to the interview, you aren't dealing with averages, you are dealing with individuals. I personally think that punishing people because of statistics is a real problem in our society and it is deeply conservative. Averages are only useful for monitoring things, the because divising and problematic when they start determining individuals' fates.



That really isn't true at all. Especially now we have just undergone a economic crisis. You seem to be swallowing the media junk hunk, line and sinker.



Life is unfair, but there is no need to just accept things that we can do something about. Diversity in the workplace has a lot of benefits to businesses so rationally it makes sense to have a diverse workforce - it is because we are irrational that that doesn't exist. Justify actions because they are comfortable to you is no justification at all.

More for the idea that the mother should be 'sued for discrimination'..

I think its fine that she chose a women over a man, it's her choice.

I do however, think it's absolutely ludicrous how scared people in this thread are of sexual predators. I can see the media scaremongering is working, freaking idiots.

This reminds me of that other thread about keeping your baby fully clothed. Seem to remember Antonia87 being rather outspoken in that thread too. Each to their own I guess but seems like you guys have some issues to sort out, to say the least.

A woman can't be hired as an infantry soldier, and there was a facebook campaign to oust the female Match of the Day commentator when she wasn't bad at all.

Likewise I got told I'd have a hard time looking for au pair work because I'm a bloke.

The media is to blame for this problem; with Gary Glitter making headlines amongst other "sickos" according to the Sun, there is a social taboo with men and small children.

if you want a cleaner for female changing rooms, and the best cleaner is a man should you hire him?

if you want a waiter for an italian restaurant should you hire the chinese guy even though he's the best waiter?

there are cases when you can discriminate

I've seen plenty of female cleaners in male changing rooms, even in schools etc. I've also seen plenty of signs saying 'these toilets are cleaned by both male and female staff, but staff will issue a warning before entering the toilets'.

You cannot explicitly discriminate against someone based on sex or ethnicity. Of course, it is done, but implicitly. There are very few cases in which you can discriminate explicitly.

Please STFU and read that I was talking about exceptions and this is the case here under both US and UK law.

Toilets aren't changing rooms dummy. In the UK, it is unheard of for the opposite gender to be cleaning while people are changing.



Please don't quote me again - I'm about to get on a flight in two hours - I don't want to have to look at such an inane reply again.

No, I think if you're actually studying law, you slept through some pretty vital lectures .
This was something I learnt during a placement.

Actually, I know a fair few places where males clean the female changing rooms and vice versa. If the "correct" gender is on shift at the time it needs cleaned, then the opposite gender will have to do.

No. It is implied that when you say company you refer to the employer (whether that be the director acting on behalf of it or otherwise), not the actual literal meaning of an enterprise for example.

You were on a placement. I study it throughout the year. Get over yourself.

Jacqui Oatley was terrible.

Ad homs are usually the first signal that you don't have a proper argument.

You seem to have some fantastically precise insights into the early behaviour of humans that seem to have eluded most of the leading researchers in the field.

Given that we have scant fossil and archaelogical evidence for the lives of hunter-gathers and the only inferences we can draw from modern cultures that are similar is that whilst male and female roles are quite defined, childcare is a collective responsibility of an entire social group and that social groups are close-knit with no real culture of paternal absenteeism, I'm not sure where you get this stuff from.

As for infering biologically pre-defined gender roles from the behaviour of other species (which much more diverse than you suggest) then that is utterly pointless - what does the behaviour of elephants or sea monkeys have to do with humans?

Sorry? Why is it nature? It was a behaviour and that behaviour has to be judged in context (i.e. society). Do you really beleive that this women's decision was entirely genetically influenced?

Women express their emotions more readily in public than men in our society, that isn't the same as saying their are more emotive.

A 'fair few places'....no you don't - not in the UK at a gym/health spa in opening hours when people are changing. It is an exception to the sex discrimination act under dignity/privacy. And it's extremely dangerous since cleaners are not required to be CRB checked - men can be alone with a naked woman and worse raises child protection concerns from paedophilia.

Please STFU and read that I was talking about exceptions and this is the case here under both US and UK law.

Toilets aren't changing rooms dummy. In the UK, it is unheard of for the opposite gender to be cleaning while people are changing.



Please don't quote me again - I'm about to get on a flight in two hours - I don't want to have to look at such an inane reply again.

My father and I ran an experiment recently; we individually went over to the park when there was a children's football game happening, and took a picture of a tree in that sort of direction, but clearly not aiming the camera at any of the kids. Guess who was confronted about it?

I wouldnt hire a man either. The only bloke I'd want changing, cleaning or seeing my daughter naked is the father (or simply family).

You don't have to believe me for it to be true. It happens, get over it. Not everywhere can have the right ratio of genders on every day for their cleaning staff. Obviously women aren't happy about it, but it happens.

Hell, even hostels which have single sex rooms often have the opposite cleaning them.

Your point on the CRB check is redundant. Very few people working in such places need a CRB check. However, if they are going to be working around children, I'm pretty sure it is now the law that every employee gets one, right down to cleaners. If I'm wrong on that, fair play, but I remember something about that being instigated, or at least talked about, a few years ago.