BPTC Application Questions

Hi Guys
I'am applying for the Bar this year, can anyone suggest some good stuff to put as answers to the questions. Here are the questions:-

Q1) Please detail any mini-pupillage or other bar related experience that you have undertaken?

Q2) Please explain why you want to train as a barrister?

Q3) Please provide specific examples of your ability to quickly and accurately analyse large amounts of written information?

Q4) please provide specific examples of when you have displayed exceptional communication and/or interpersonal skills?

Q5) Please provide specific examples of how you have developed your advocacy and public speaking skills, preferably since the age of 18?

Q6) please describe a time when you have been particularly under pressure and how you organised your work?

Q7) Please include any information you feel may be relevant here which has not been covered by the questions in this application?

I have done:- mooting, debating, work experience with 3 local solicitors firms, marshalling a magistrate judge, Lots of public speaking and have won 1st in it. Know lots of different languages...

any help woud be kindly appreciated

P.S no silly answers please

Reply 1

Alexr115

7

Q1) Please detail any mini-pupillage or other bar related experience that you have undertaken?
Obviously put your work experience down and put down things that you did whilst on work experience

Q2) Please explain why you want to train as a barrister?
You do not need help on this question surely, if you do not know then why bother applying??

Q3) Please provide specific examples of your ability to quickly and accurately analyse large amounts of written information?
"whilst on work experience I assisted the solicitor with a case I did this, I did that, I did the other...."

Q4) please provide specific examples of when you have displayed exceptional communication and/or interpersonal skills?
Use an example from when you did work experience (dealing with a client etc....)

Q5) Please provide specific examples of how you have developed your advocacy and public speaking skills, preferably since the age of 18?
how your public speaking has got better and what type of public speaking you have done

Q6) please describe a time when you have been particularly under pressure and how you organised your work?
describe a stressful time and how you dealt with it

Q7) Please include any information you feel may be relevant here which has not been covered by the questions in this application?
Again you don't need help with that

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 2

SevenStars

How can you say 'no silly answers' when your request is silly?

As I just posted on the other thread where you posed the same request, IF you have done the things that you state you have done, you will be able to answer the questions with relative ease.

Reply 3

LibraryHomeCinema

Original post by farhan9676

Hi Guys
I'am applying for the Bar this year, can anyone suggest some good stuff to put as answers to the questions. Here are the questions:-

Q1) Please detail any mini-pupillage or other bar related experience that you have undertaken?

Q2) Please explain why you want to train as a barrister?

Q3) Please provide specific examples of your ability to quickly and accurately analyse large amounts of written information?

Q4) please provide specific examples of when you have displayed exceptional communication and/or interpersonal skills?

Q5) Please provide specific examples of how you have developed your advocacy and public speaking skills, preferably since the age of 18?

Q6) please describe a time when you have been particularly under pressure and how you organised your work?

Q7) Please include any information you feel may be relevant here which has not been covered by the questions in this application?

I have done:- mooting, debating, work experience with 3 local solicitors firms, marshalling a magistrate judge, Lots of public speaking and have won 1st in it. Know lots of different languages...

any help woud be kindly appreciated

P.S no silly answers please

Do it yourself. I can't believe you would ask someone to do this for you. This type of thread should not be allowed.

EDIT: You better start practising at this sort of thing as if you plan to get pupillage you're going to have to answer a hell of a lot more questions on these topics.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 4

jjarvis

14

Original post by farhan9676

Hi Guys
I'am applying for the Bar this year, can anyone suggest some good stuff to put as answers to the questions. Here are the questions:-

Q1) Please detail any mini-pupillage or other bar related experience that you have undertaken?

Q2) Please explain why you want to train as a barrister?

Q3) Please provide specific examples of your ability to quickly and accurately analyse large amounts of written information?

Q4) please provide specific examples of when you have displayed exceptional communication and/or interpersonal skills?

Q5) Please provide specific examples of how you have developed your advocacy and public speaking skills, preferably since the age of 18?

Q6) please describe a time when you have been particularly under pressure and how you organised your work?

Q7) Please include any information you feel may be relevant here which has not been covered by the questions in this application?

I have done:- mooting, debating, work experience with 3 local solicitors firms, marshalling a magistrate judge, Lots of public speaking and have won 1st in it. Know lots of different languages...

any help woud be kindly appreciated

P.S no silly answers please

Banana.

Spoiler

Reply 5

farhan9676

OP

Thankyou to alexrr115, but the rest of you if you cant help then why bother writing something innappropriate. Obviously shows that you cant read and shows me your level of intelectual ability

All i wanted is to make my application very professional. i know iits a lot to ask from some people...

Reply 6

farhan9676

OP

Listen guys the competition is tough on the BPTC and all i wanted was for someone to help me write a good answer for those questions.

Anyone can write a simple answer but i wanted my answer to be top class. As whats the point in writing a simple answer your application wont be strong enough compared to others.

Guess all people want to do is criticise me for asking these "easy questions".

Thanks alexrr115 for helping me then criticising me...

Reply 7

SevenStars

Original post by farhan9676

Thankyou to alexrr115, but the rest of you if you cant help then why bother writing something innappropriate. Obviously shows that you cant read and shows me your level of intelectual ability

All i wanted is to make my application very professional. i know iits a lot to ask from some people...

It's 'won't' help, not 'can't'.

You see, as previously explained, if you cannot answer these very basic and simple questions yourself, that should give you pause to question your suitability for the course, let alone the career that is supposed to follow it.

Finally, if you will insist on attempting to disparage other people's literacy and intellectual skills then I suggest you at least learn how to spell and punctuate correctly.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 8

MickJB1989

Original post by jjarvis

Banana.

Spoiler

QFT.

Original post by farhan9676

Thankyou to alexrr115, but the rest of you if you cant help then why bother writing something innappropriate. Obviously shows that you cant read and shows me your level of intelectual ability

All i wanted is to make my application very professional. i know iits a lot to ask from some people...

Original post by farhan9676

Listen guys the competition is tough on the BPTC and all i wanted was for someone to help me write a good answer for those questions.

Anyone can write a simple answer but i wanted my answer to be top class. As whats the point in writing a simple answer your application wont be strong enough compared to others.

Guess all people want to do is criticise me for asking these "easy questions".

Thanks alexrr115 for helping me then criticising me...

I personally take umbrage with people asking/ employing others to write application forms for them from scratch. Proof-reading is fine, getting a mate who did HR to check out your CV is also fine, attending your university career service for a bit of advice; that's fine too.

However, not even bothering to attempt to answer the questions, and simply saying "Hey guys, I've got a bit of work experience and done some mooting, will you fill in the details for me" is tantamount to plagiarism in my book. Had you posted your answers to the questions and opened the floor to constructive criticism, you may have found a much warmer reception.

Reply 9

jjarvis

14

Original post by farhan9676

Thankyou to alexrr115, but the rest of you if you cant help then why bother writing something innappropriate. Obviously shows that you cant read and shows me your level of intelectual ability

All i wanted is to make my application very professional. i know iits a lot to ask from some people...

I, too, have found the best way to demonstrate professionalism is by asking strangers on the internet to do my work for me.

Reply 10

FMQ

5

Original post by farhan9676

Hi Guys
I'am applying for the Bar this year, can anyone suggest some good stuff to put as answers to the questions. Here are the questions:-

Q1) Please detail any mini-pupillage or other bar related experience that you have undertaken?

Q2) Please explain why you want to train as a barrister?

Q3) Please provide specific examples of your ability to quickly and accurately analyse large amounts of written information?

Q4) please provide specific examples of when you have displayed exceptional communication and/or interpersonal skills?

Q5) Please provide specific examples of how you have developed your advocacy and public speaking skills, preferably since the age of 18?

Q6) please describe a time when you have been particularly under pressure and how you organised your work?

Q7) Please include any information you feel may be relevant here which has not been covered by the questions in this application?

I have done:- mooting, debating, work experience with 3 local solicitors firms, marshalling a magistrate judge, Lots of public speaking and have won 1st in it. Know lots of different languages...

any help woud be kindly appreciated

P.S no silly answers please

An "extremely good" candidate has about 25% chance of pupillage. Someone who can't even fill in the application form without help has significantly significantly less chance of making it. I warn you, Please don't waste your money/parents money/get in debt for this qualification you will NEVER use.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 11

Jaslene

Hey guys, regarding this question:

Q1) Please detail any mini-pupillage or other bar related experience that youhttp://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/images/icons/icon9.gif have undertaken?

I do not have any legal experiences yet to mention here. I did the LLB and graduated this July. I also did some finance courses and worked in finance sector for a period of 3 months. But that would be irrelevant here.

The only thing I did so far related to my Bar, is Mediation Training for 4 months as part of my Law degree. That's pretty much it. Do you think this would affect my BVC application? http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/images/smilies/s-smilie.gif

Reply 12

anongirl

I don't know how it will affect your chances for entry to the BPTC as it was relatively easy to get a place two years ago when i did it (the BPTC providers are interested in your money not you credentials in my opinion.)

However, it is certainly going to affect your chances of gaining pupillage. Experience is ESSENTIAL in pupillage applications and indeed on a personal level; how do you know you want to be a barrister if you haven't had experience shadowing/working alongside one?

Investing in the BPTC is a huge commitment and you need to be sure it's definitely what you want to do. If it is then i suggest you get as much experience in as you can before pupillage application time comes around!

Reply 13

Jaslene

@ Anongirl: Ya its getting harder and harder- specially with the new aptitude test being introduced as entrance exam. You're right I'll try to get as much experience as possible then :smile:

I just hope that for now, it does not affect my BPTC application.

Reply 14

anongirl

I think your degree result and the ability to show a good standard of written english is viewed more highly than experience for BPTC entry. It will be interesting to see what the aptitude test is like and how much weight is attached to it.

It's definitely getting harder. In my opinion restricting numbers on the BPTC is only a good thing so that only those who realistically have a chance of pupillage are allowed to spend such a large amount of money! Now that the route for cross qualification has been closed it's absolutely right that only really good candidates are allowed to do the BPTC.

I wish you the best of luck in your BPTC application and your hunt for pupillage thereafter.

Reply 15

MickJB1989

Original post by anongirl

I think your degree result and the ability to show a good standard of written english is viewed more highly than experience for BPTC entry. It will be interesting to see what the aptitude test is like and how much weight is attached to it.

It's definitely getting harder. In my opinion restricting numbers on the BPTC is only a good thing so that only those who realistically have a chance of pupillage are allowed to spend such a large amount of money! Now that the route for cross qualification has been closed it's absolutely right that only really good candidates are allowed to do the BPTC.

I wish you the best of luck in your BPTC application and your hunt for pupillage thereafter.

This year, I am told they will be requiring all applicants to sit the test, but it will not impact on the entry requirements. From ext year however, poor results in the test will be a barrier to entry onto the BPTC.

Reply 16

Bar 2001

I have watched the postings on TSR re: the BVC/BPTC for some time and with much interest. I eventually felt that I would add my contributions.

I am a practising barrister, as well as a full-time BPTC trainer/tutor and admissions tutor for my institution (which I will not identify). I would echo much of what has been said - the answers must be personal to you and must relate to your background and your experience. We can spot generic answers a long way off and with competition very fierce for places, that can only count against you.

Some bitterness and resentment exists towards providers of this course. Some of it may be fair. However, things sometimes need to be placed into context. It is the Bar Standards Board that sets entry standards and validates the number of places nationally and institutionally. It is not the providers. It is also worth noting that the BSB takes a fee of around £300 per student (there are approx 2,000 students each year) so numbers of a level are in their own interest.

My own experience has not been that providers are interested in money and not credentials. Income from a course must be sufficient to justify its continuance; nobody can reasonably expect people to work for free or universities/companies to keep something going that loses vast amounts of money. If attention was not paid to the finances, there would be fewer providers and fewer places. That could consign applicants with realistic prospects to become of supply and demand - after all, the line has to be drawn somewhere.

I personally take recruitment and admissions very seriously and if refusing places means the course is not filled, so be it. I would rather that than recruit somebody with no apparent committment to the Bar, with limited insight into the career and/or with no relevant work experience.

The only way to put in a good application is to work very hard to achieve good academics, to show a committment to your intended career (e.g. why do you want to do it, what makes you cut out for it), to shadow barristers (and if possible solicitors to draw the distinction) for relevant experience as well as to help answer the questions.

Reply 17

SevenStars

Original post by Bar 2001

nobody can reasonably expect people to work for free

I have no real objections to anything you have written, bar the above that I have quoted.

Law students, or rather those hoping to go into law as a career, are regularly EXPECTED to work for free, largely in order to tick various boxes on application forms for their future careers. (I am not making any suggestion that the work experience itself is not valuable.)

I am not suggesting those barristers engaged in lecturing/tutoring on the BPTC courses should do it for free, but don't hold out the fact that they need to be paid as the reason behind the rise in fees (or in fact for the fees being at the levels they are) - last year City raised their fees by 7% - I doubt that salaries were raised that much in the current economic climate. If one provider can do the course for 13-14k, then there appears no valid reason for another provider to charge 4k more.

The fact is, there are those of us who will pay the fee, whatever it may be, simply because it is a necessary part of our training to become a barrister. There are likely to be zero people under the illusion that it is some fabulously high profile, well taught, well resourced qualification that will stand us in good stead for any career we could wish for if pupillage eludes us. If one doesn't get pupillage, then the BPTC is the biggest waste of money anyone could spend on an 'education', we can no longer even cross-qualify with it!

So whilst those barristers who are lecturing/tutoring need to be paid, there is also the moral element to consider, that of allowing many people who will fail to get pupillage to take the course in the first place.

A cull at first shot might be the best bet - but that undoubtedly makes little business sense to the providers.

Reply 18

Bar 2001

I don't think it's anything new that people aspiring to join a career of almost any description invest time and effort to gain experience of that world. Mini-pupillages are a necessary evil and have been for sometime now. I did them, as well as unpaid placements in solicitors' offices and the like, not to mention mooting and other worthy causes. I don't agree that this is working in the true sense of the word, it is gaining experience to get ahead and stand out in applications for training and work.

The reality is that the profession is the main driving force. The number of pupils that chambers require annually determines the opportunities for Bar students. At the moment, they are at a record low. This has been a gradual process and links to:

1. A decision of the courts around 10 years ago that it was unlawful not to pay pupils. Whilst I accept that this truly was working for free (during first six; you were paid in second six), it accounted for possibly up to 15% of pupillages. Up to that point, there were around 700 pupillages a year and this swiftly fell to below 600.

2. Persistent erosion of public funding for the criminal and family Bar. The effect of this cannot be understated. My former chambers went from recruiting a criminal pupil every year to (at last count) having not recruited a criminal pupil since 2004.

3. What chambers began to do instead was to recruit solicitors. There was no obligation to pay them. What began as short-term response to declining income for chambers became more widely used due to its efficiency.

4. Whilst this was happening, chambers were going out of business or splitting and merging elsewhere, which inevitably makes the pool smaller.

This happened over a short period of time. During the majority of that time, BVC providers were validated to run the course for a fixed number of years and so it was not an option to pull the plug on them. Again, I would invite you to consider the BSB's role here. They re-validated all providers of the BVC to continue to run the BPTC. Some providers are purportedly applying to open more centres from 2012. The BSB did this in full knowledge of the declining market for pupillages. They also expressly rejected a 2:1 entry standard, opting instead for an aptitude test. This was due online for 2010 but has not been implemented as a condition for entry yet. This will, in my view, be a flawed outcome. The test can be taken as many times as the applicant wishes. Undoubtedly, courses will be devised to get them through the exam.

I agree that there should be a dose of reality regarding numbers. It would be wrong to reduce too much, for example it would make no sense to recruit only 500 students annually. The buyers (chambers) will always require a wider pool of sellers from which to select. If 500 people are available for 450 pupillages, chambers will recruit fewer pupils and things will become worse overall.

Cross-qualification is not as gloomy as it looked to be. Originally, the SRA were going to require BPTC graduates to complete the LPC. This was soon relaxed to just sitting the exams, and this is being whittled down further to hopefully only relate to exams that the BPTC did not suitably equip would be solicitors for e.g. some aspects of client interviewing etc. I don't envisage the position to be vastly different from now in years to come. It is worthy of note that it was the providers (along with the Inns) that took this fight to the BSB, prompting the negotiations with the SRA.

Fees - London will always be more expensive. Commercial providers (i.e. non universities) will always be the most expensive. Amongst the university providers, their overall structure and size will determine the fee level.

Reply 19

FMQ

5

Original post by Bar 2001

<B> Mini-pupillages are a necessary evil and have been for sometime now. I did them, as well as unpaid placements in solicitors' offices and the like, not to mention mooting and other worthy causes.</B> .

I am sorry but this comment angers me. If only that were the reality. The reality is from my experience (and my academics which not the best exceed a lot of bar hopefuls) I had to WORK unpaid for a year. And I mean work - i did something every day - FRU, NCDV, 2 seperate legal advice organisations, another charity losely related to law, an non legal organisation not to mention the minis, free clerking, moots etc etc. At the end of this, after exceeding 300 applications I landed a paralegal role on £13k. Living in london if i hadn't had a previous career and a lot of savings to cover my london mortgage this would not have been an option and certainly isn't for a lot of kids. I am now in a pseudo TC earning the minimum of around 18k. I would not be here is i hadn't WORKED FOR FREE and now accept less of a salary than i would have even CONSIDERED when I graduated the first time nearly 20 years ago, so please don't make such comments about not being expected to work for free when you are not in that position!

(edited 13 years ago)

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