Muslims suicide bomb Swedish shopping centre

WTF are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense.



No, what the Quran has is some vague verses which some Muslims, retrospectively, and with a lot of imagination, are juxtaposing onto modern scientific discoveries.



What do you mean it is 'not a deal breaker'? The scientific community and academia virtually universally supports evolution as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, anthropology, and others. Denying it means you're contradicting science.



Evidence?

Do you think we would have invaded Pakistan if they didn't have nukes? Of course we would. Furthermore in Pakistan we have an at least slightly accepting state, who is willing to try and build an army to make its citizens behave appropriately in the international environment. The Taliban were never going to play ball. The million or so dead are dead thanks to Islam, we in fact only killed 1-2% of all civilians. And of the civilians we did kill in Afghanistan/Iraq, only a small handful were on purpose. This is why other countries like Pakistan and Somalia that we haven't invaded have almost similar death counts, despite a lack of our troops being there.

Yes I know pakistan wasn't invaded because of their nuclear weapons and also due to the likely risk of wider war with india, escalting to a massive scale.
Not the mention the possible backlash from pakistani back in britian (labour voters) rioting when they see british troops pump metal into thier friends and family in pakistan!

what do you mean by 'willling to try and build an army to make its citizens behave appropriately in the international environment'????

Christianity created the environment for these things to be discovered, in the same way Islam stifles such an environment of discovery from being created. If you are going to attribute things discovered in an Islamic world to Islam, you could at least not be hypocritical and apply that same logic to Christianity.

The inventions you actually referred to were created in secular states devoid of religious (or Christian) rule whereas the ideas conceived during the Islamic Golden Age were nurtured in the Islamic caliphate.

Take your head out of your arse hole. I'm pretty sure the Israeli Palestine conflict has one of the lowest casualty rates of any modern conflict. Have you ever spared a thought for those innocent Jewish children and women who have suffered for thousands of years at the hands of Christian Europe and Muslims? Have you every thought about things from Israels point of view? (Having a whole region despise you (even want you dead) because you try to take back your holy land from a group of rootless Arab invaders left over in the region).

Do you ever spare a thought for the innocent women who have practically zero human rights under Taliban rule? Someone said earlier in this thread if we could stop Muslim terrorism today the biggest beneficiaries would be Muslims themselves and people agreed. Isn't this justification for the "invasion" of Iraq and Afghanistan? The war is not on the actual country but the dictators and brutal regimes which not only pose a threat to the surrounding region but the West too. (Don't talk about Saddam - any notion that we instated him initially only DOUBLES our responsibility to remove him).

You even talked about this stemming from the westernization of Muslim countries... really? It works both ways... Not only have western countries become more tolerant of Middle Eastern culture (even if it conflicts with their own) but these westernized Muslim countries are MORE THAN HAPPY to receive trade & business from the west. This is how civilization works and progresses. Stop ****ing blaming the big bad west/evil Jews for the problems and instability in that region.

It stems down to a conflict between fundamental Islam ideologies/backwards culture and the direction in which the world is moving.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1296126090432829344#

What the attacks by the US in Libya, Somalia, the drone attacks in Pakistan and Afganistan killing god knows how many innocent civilains?

oh so muslims are terrorists you say? how come i aint bombed or hurt anyone yet?

Christianity does not call for Christian rule, whereas Islam does. The vast majority of the citizenry making up the secular state were Christian. Take a look at Turkey, also secular but made up of Muslims - almost zero scientific discoveries and none of any real merit. Clearly the religious make up of the country has a massive bearing.

I love how the TSR Communist Society is out in force negging posts that dare to condemn this. Do you condone Islamic terrorism or something?

Were the inventors Christian? They're overwhelmingly atheist from what I know so I don't see what other people have to do with it? Unless you mean because their neighbours were Christian they learnt more? Parts of Europe were ruled by Christianity so it did happen before secularism rose. Turkey in its current form (secular reform under Ataturk) hasn't been around long but there were significant contributions when it was the Ottoman Empire.

didnt christianity hold back science during the dark ages?

Were the inventors Christian? They're overwhelmingly atheist from what I know so I don't see what other people have to do with it? Unless you mean because their neighbours were Christian they learnt more? Parts of Europe were ruled by Christianity so it did happen before secularism rose. Turkey in its current form (secular reform under Ataturk) hasn't been around long but there were significant contributions when it was the Ottoman Empire.

I mean that the development money we are giving to Afghanistan is in order for them to build a system through which they can be governed and stopped from harming our citizens. We need to be present in that country to make sure they are doing this, admittedly we aren't doing a good job. Pakistan is different. The head of state there is more willing to go about doing our bidding. Geopolitics is nothing new, and war is specifically designed to compel others to fulfil our wishes.

War is the continuation of politics by other means as Clausewitz would say. He would also say war is designed to do 2 things:
1) Achieve limited aims.
2) To disarm the enemy.

Where we are failing in this war is that we have not created limited aims, we have created unlimited aims. We are however somewhat succeeding in creating a system that systematically disarms the enemy on our behalf.

Just out of interest OP, How would stopping all muslim immigration stop terrorism ?

considering most 'terrorists' that domestically attack are born in europe anyway ...

didnt christianity hold back science during the dark ages?