Do you think Pastor Terry Jones should be banned from the UK? (POLL)

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personally i don't think he should be banned (because of free speech and whatnot) but i hate when people aren't consistent. If you're going to ban people for free speech, then ban both christian and muslim extremists who preach hate. People seem to be all for arresting/ banning muslims extremists but pull 'freedom of speech' when it comes to other things.

Reply 41

Wacp

Original post by rash92

I think the Westboro baptist Church were banned actually.

Reply 42

Inzamam99

Original post by Elipsis

In this country you should have the right to say what you want, not the right not to be offended. Muslims will never get that. That's why more of them protested over a Swedish person drawing Mohammed than will protest over the bombing of innocent Swedish citizens by their brothers.

Yeah none of the evil stupid Muslims know what you are talking about. It's not just a small minority of course. As you very intelligently mention, it's all Muslims universally.

Reply 43

34253

Original post by Inzamam99

Yeah none of the evil stupid Muslims know what you are talking about. It's not just a small minority of course. As you very intelligently mention, it's all Muslims universally.

A small minority that perpetrates the act, a slightly larger minority that supports and funds the acts, and an even larger majority who decide to do f/a about it, yes.

Reply 44

Inzamam99

Original post by Elipsis

A small minority that perpetrates the act, a slightly larger minority that supports and funds the acts, and an even larger majority who decide to do f/a about it, yes.

As you mentioned just now, the vast majority DON'T support the act OR perpetrate it. Most of these people as you correctly state do **** all about it. This isn't because they're Muslim- it's just human nature and they may also have their reasons. For example if you're in a village in Iraq dominated by fundamentalist Muslims, you're hardly likely to speak out if you disagree with them.

In general, it's in our nature to sit back and do nothing when bad things and atrocities happen (for some weird reason). Ever watched Hotel Rwanda- the Rwandan guy asks if the West would do more to stop the genocide when they watch the video of Rwandans being butchered by the Interhamwe. To this the journalist replies: "I think if people see this footage, they'll say Oh, my God, that's horrible. And then they'll go on eating their dinners."

Reply 45

Wacp

Original post by Inzamam99

As you mentioned just now, the vast majority DON'T support the act OR perpetrate it.

Though, according to a recent Pew research, very large minorities in Indonesia, Jordan, Egypt and Nigeria support Al-qaeda.

Reply 46

think1

Yes because he is intent on making a speech that would no doubt incite racial hatred. Why should he be allowed to come here and spread hate?
Freedom of speech has got limits and the affect of his speech could be detrimental to this country.

What annoys me the most about him is that he is a pastor. This is not what Jesus taught.

Reply 47

Wacp

Original post by aprilterri

Yes because he is intent on making a speech that would no doubt incite racial hatred.

WTF?

Islam is not a race.

aprilterri

Freedom of speech has got limits

Who decides these limits?

aprilterri

the affect of his speech could be detrimental to this country.

How?

Reply 48

tieyourmotherdown

No. No matter how much of an idiot the man is, we can't just ban him because we disagree with him. If he arrives here and incites violence, then yes kick him out quicker than you can say "OUTRAGE OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS!", but until then I'm afraid, we have to give him the benefit of the doubt, however ridiculous that may seem.

Reply 49

MostCompetitive

The guy, despite being a pastor, clearly isn't religious. No religion instructs people to hate other people's religions. He should be ashamed of himself.

Reply 50

callum9999

Original post by beesbees

Obviously not, people should be able to say whatever they want. **** this. If you're that influenced by "hate speech" after listening to some ****, enough to change your views or go and do something silly, you're a moron.

People aren't saying it because they are scared they'd be converted... They are concerned other people will be converted/encouraged. And yes, there are a lot of morons around.

I'd like to see him banned. People will moan about free speech/democracy etc. but the bottom line is this man can only have a negative impact on Britain so shouldn't be allowed in. Just like those Westboro people.

Original post by tieyourmotherdown

I think you'll find we can ban him because we disagree with him - this is what is being considered right now.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 51

silent ninja

Original post by jakemittle

Freedom of Speech.
Im sorry, but May will probably ban him citing hatred as a reason. But the extremist Muslims here can call for the death of British Soldiers or burn the Union Jack or something and nothing happens to them. Tis rather unfair.
Just because people dont agree with his views dont mean that he should be banned. I dont agree with his views and I think he is rather extremist btw.

You can't have it both ways lol
You'd like to see those 'muslims' banned but happy for the pastor to come over. Yes that's makes perfect sense.
Condemn both or neither. Simplez.

The extremists will love him coming over. More amunition.
We all know these extremists' views and motivation are based on political issues around the world, not Islam, but hey it's much easier to target Islam with a hate speech. Political issues are too complicated to get in to, and this simply shows the real hate and prejudicie people like the Pastor harbour within.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 52

think1

Original post by Wacp

WTF?

Islam is not a race.

Yh I know but crimes against muslims come under racial hatred

Who decides these limits?

Everything is relative to the situation. If in this instance the Home Secretary and the police etc... believe that allowing a controversial figure to come into the UK and give a speech to a risky group such as the EDL is wrong then it should be at their discretion. If they think that it is OK then that too is for them to decide.

How?

The EDL are known for their trouble making. Now some american guy comes over gives them a speech which is likely to wind them up/fuel them to start another riot to target muslims etc.. is detrimental to the country.

Reply 53

Wacp

Original post by MostCompetitive

No religion instructs people to hate other people's religions.

Yeah, because you know about all the religions in the world.

And, this is what the Quran has to say about non-Muslims: Non-Muslims will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56

I think that's quite hateful, to be honest.

Reply 54

tieyourmotherdown

I think you'll find we can ban him because we disagree with him - this is what is being considered right now.

Sorry I should have phrased it better: "I'm my opinion you shouldn't ban somebody just because you disagree with them"

Original post by callum9999

People aren't saying it because they are scared they'd be converted... They are concerned other people will be converted/encouraged. And yes, there are a lot of morons around.

I know this wasn't to me but I ought to point out, the best thing we can do to ensure that his message doesn't spread is to let him come here, honestly. If he get's banned then he can gain sympathy and use it to his advantage i.e show it as him being oppressed, not tell us the full story and as you said, there are some morons out there who will feel sorry for him. If we let him arrive here and preach the anti-Islamic, homophobic nonsense he believes in, then people will see him for the idiot he is, as he can't hide behind anything. It's basically all about not giving him any ammunition to gain sympathy with.

Reply 55

Inzamam99

Original post by Wacp

Though, according to a recent Pew research, very large minorities in Indonesia, Jordan, Egypt and Nigeria support Al-qaeda.

And why do they support Al Qaeda? Have you ever wondered why there was an explosion in extremism after the illegal US invasion of Iraq? Why there was pretty much no Islamic extremism outside Palestine before the US began funding it during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.

By and large, the extremists aren't motivated by some religious ideology, more by their desire to avenge relatives killed by US actions or sense of injustice as to what's happening to their Muslim brothers and sisters. In fact quite a lot of them only agree to become suicide bombers as their dirt poor families are promised money if they do it.

Reply 56

.Ali.

Original post by jakemittle

This is what I think too. You either ban it all, or allow it all. Once you start banning speaking about one particular thing, you're in very dangerous teritory.

The way to dismantle the opinions of people like Pastor Jones are through logical debate and reasoning. Banning him will give him more support, as people will feel sorry for him.

(I don't agree with his views either, I just think he should be allowed freedom of speech.)

Reply 57

callum9999

Original post by tieyourmotherdown

Sorry I should have phrased it better: "I'm my opinion you shouldn't ban somebody just because you disagree with them"

I know this wasn't to me but I ought to point out, the best thing we can do to ensure that his message doesn't spread is to let him come here, honestly. If he get's banned then he can gain sympathy and use it to his advantage i.e show it as him being oppressed, not tell us the full story and as you said, there are some morons out there who will feel sorry for him. If we let him arrive here and preach the anti-Islamic, homophobic nonsense he believes in, then people will see him for the idiot he is, as he can't hide behind anything. It's basically all about not giving him any ammunition to gain sympathy with.

That makes much more sense - I don't know how I read it the other way now!

I guess that is true in a way, but I personally believe him being here will make no difference either way (which I guess makes it a bit odd I want to see him banned - but then I don't want anyone like him here. We have to put up with the millions of British people who think like him - we don't need anymore!).

I'd assume his audience will be people who already think that and just want to hear it confirmed as they think it somehow validates their opinion, and on the whole, he will be ignored by everyone else (or protested against).

Reply 58

beesbees

Original post by qasidb

what?! why am i a moron?! i didnt say anything for or against him in this thread! what did i do?!

Noo, I meant the general public, wasn;t drecting it at anyone in the thread. Like, IF you are influenced that easily, you're a moron type statement...

Reply 59

joey11223

How strong are his views? I know he was going to burn a Qu'ran, was that in protest about the cultural centre being built near 9/11? Does he totally understand what the EDL really are?