Best modules for engineering route

Hi everyone
I would really appreciate advice on a few things bugging my mind. I intend to start an engineering degree in 2012. I wonder on the advantage of sitting the AEA and STEP Mathematics. Since I am studying independently, I dont want to place an extra burden on my academic workload. But I really love mathematics and will love to stretch myself. I also intend to sit M4 and M5 in June. Most universities advise potential engineering students to do as much Mechanics modules as possible. But it seems most students dont even atttempt M3. Do you think this would provide a good advantage on my potential engineering course? Or should I opt for the more popular S1 and S2 courses.

By way, I only intend to sit Step 1 and 2.

Finally, I am torn betweem studying Physics and Electrical Engineering. I adore Professor Walter Lewin from the MIT and can visualise myself in his lectures. I only recently bought introduction to Physics and slightly amazed at the mathematical content of a Physics degree. So, I seem to veer towards a Physics degree. But I subscribe for the IET and IEEE magazines and can barely put them down. This is even in the toilet. I do love teaching and will like to follow in the footsteps of 'Walter'. But I cant believe I am living through the 'energy' debate. The idea of developing renewable energy systems is mouthwatering!!!
Please advise.

Definitely do mechanics modules instead of statistics, and if you're confident you'll easily achieve the high grades do AEA and/or STEP. AEA isn't that tough, but it's a nice step between A level and STEP papers.

Universities won't normally require AEA or STEP for engineering or physics, but of course it wouldn't harm and you'll most likely have to do them if you want to apply to top unis for maths. Also, if you fail your AEA and STEP exams it won't make a difference, so why not try. If you're applying to top uni's it might give you an edge but for engineering I don't think it will make much difference. Things like your personal statement have helped my application a lot more than AEA which I put down on the UCAS form I think.

Thanks for your reply. The universities I will be applying for have an interesting view on AEA/STEP. Certain Cambridge colleges for instance, actually stipulate. I dont think this forms part of the final offer. Imperial also encourages the same. Can you please tell me where you are currently studyiong engineering? What is your weekly timetable like? How much mathematics is involved? What modules from A level would you say were the most relevant?

I would have been highly surprised if anywhere were to give an offer including Step or AEA, for an engineering course, seeing as it's quite irrelevant.

I'm studying engineering. My timetable is fairly full. Not quite as full as it was in first and second year, but not quite at arts and humanities levels. Contact hours have slightly tapered off because we don't need our hands held as much and we also have project type work to fit in normal working hours (the technicians don't work nights) as well.

Maths wise, there's lots of it, but it's all applied and you can easily see the sort of things covered if you check out Advanced Engineering Mathematics by KA Stroud. The level of maths content covered is going to vary from uni to uni, I'd imagine, but most of the big players in the oil & gas and energy sectors don't do many maths modules, I've learned from talking to graduates - about four or five. I have more semesters where I've not got a maths module than ones where I have. And that's the way I like it.

I've used this book, and its almost 100% pure maths; loads of calculus some matric algebra, vectors and fourier, z and laplace transforms. Maybe your confused as to the nature of applied and pure maths? I don't see how STEP or AEA is irrelevant at all, especially for the Cambridge or Imperial courses, it's about using your skills to solve new problems and tests your maths much further. Hardly irrelevant to engineering.

I think you should stop trying to put the OP off engineering and telling him he should do maths or physics if maths is his passion.. Maths is the basis of engineering and OP should make his own mind up.

I don't know why you keep talking about the "big players in the oil and gas industry" firstly because there's alot more to engineering than oil and gas and secondly because there is a LOT of maths in the Cambridge and Imperial courses which he will have to do regardless of his future career, these universities have a pick of the best candidates and having done STEP or AEA would let him stand out a bit.

I classify that as applied maths because there are clear applications for it. I use this definition for pure maths. "[P]ure mathematics is mathematics motivated entirely for reasons other than application...Another insightful view is that of pure mathematics as not necessarily applied mathematics."

Maths is only the basis of university engineering, not proper engineering. There is a big distinction. And you don't need an engineering degree to work in most forms of engineering anyway. I genuinely think that the OP would be happier doing a maths degree and then if he wants to there would be plenty of opportunities for him to work within engineering in a role that'd suit him, i.e. with lots of maths, like reservoir engineering.

As I've already said engineering is a degree for people who want to make things. There'll be lots of practical and project work. It's not a maths degree and if I was of a sufficient mathematical ability to be considering Step then I'd most likely not feel very stretched mathematically doing engineering.

Well then pretty much all maths is applied, to the OP this maths is a lot more like the pure modules he'll be studying at the moment than mechanics ones.

Well he is going to university...

And if he gets into Cambridge he'll be studying general engineering for 2 years so will cover all sorts of maths.

I'm fairly sure any kind of engineering degree would stretch him at Cambridge or Imperial. .

No, you obviously did not read my definition. There is plenty of maths studied purely for the beauty of mathematics. Engineers don't study maths for pleasure or enjoyment: we study it because we need it to solve some of the problems we come across. And as such, we approach it differently to maths students: we don't do proofs, we do very little if any derivations and we generally don't care why something equals something else, only that it does, so that we can then use it to solve real world problems. It's not abstract or anything like a maths degree. It's essentially a cut-down version of maths. Because you can be a brilliant mathematician and a crappy engineer.

Which is only one tiny part of someone's engineering career, that'll become completely irrelevant after his/her first job.

Your point is?

He's going to need maths to get through uni, but you're saying maths isn't used in the oil and gas sector.

I'm pretty sure lots of engineers do need a lot of maths after uni, he's not said anything about mech eng or gas and oil...?

He's expressed an interest in Electrical engineering, so none of that is relevant at all.

Why are you at uni? After all learning maths and stuff is pointless right? and you don't need a degree to work in engineering.

I don't really know what you're point is.

I'm just saying that he obviously wants to do engineering, and I don't think it's very helpful you telling him he should do maths.

STEP and AEA is really not that advanced for a candidate applying to the top universities. You seem to think that because he's doing STEP he's too good at maths to enjoy engineering or something.

Maths is only the basis of university engineering, not proper engineering.

I never said that engineers don't need maths after university.

And you don't need an engineering degree to work in most forms of engineering anyway.

Nowadays you pretty much do need a degree to work in engineering. An engineering degree is preferred, although in some cases maths or physics will do.

Are you trying to say that electrical or electronics engineers don't or can't work in the oil & gas sector? Did you miss the part where I said that it is the most technologically advanced sector behind space?

As I've said above, my point should be blatantly obvious to anyone who can read English, but I've got a feeling that doesn't apply to you.

And I'm saying that as someone who is actually studying engineering (i.e, I'm not an applicant for 2011 entry) that he sounds like someone who'd prefer maths or some sort of physics.

Someone who is going to study engineering is more likely to enjoy playing with engines, making their own electronics or mixing household chemicals than sitting a Step exam.

No. I am saying that if he wants to take Step for fun, and is asking about how much maths is in an engineering degree his interests are probably more with mathematics than engineering, which can be boring and tedious at times and doesn't always include advanced maths. As someone who is actually studying an engineering degree I think I am well placed to comment on whether someone else would like an engineering degree, and I've got a feeling the OP is primarily in it for the maths, which is not a good reason to do an engineering degree.

Did he say he dosen't enjoy doing these things? All you know about the OP is that he enjoys maths, which I think is perfect for engineering.

I classify that as applied maths because there are clear applications for it. I use this definition for pure maths. "[P]ure mathematics is mathematics motivated entirely for reasons other than application...Another insightful view is that of pure mathematics as not necessarily applied mathematics."



Maths is only the basis of university engineering, not proper engineering. There is a big distinction. And you don't need an engineering degree to work in most forms of engineering anyway. I genuinely think that the OP would be happier doing a maths degree and then if he wants to there would be plenty of opportunities for him to work within engineering in a role that'd suit him, i.e. with lots of maths, like reservoir engineering.

As I've already said engineering is a degree for people who want to make things. There'll be lots of practical and project work. It's not a maths degree and if I was of a sufficient mathematical ability to be considering Step then I'd most likely not feel very stretched mathematically doing engineering.



Oil & gas is where the money's at!

Edit: and also because it's the most technologically advanced sector outside of the space industry that demands the highest quality of graduates.

I think this is where you're going wrong. Forgive me if I'm misinterpretting what you've said, but enjoying maths isn't 'perfect' for engineering - engineering as I'm sure you know, is far, far more than just maths. I know when you're in the process of applying there's a big emphasis on mathematical ability, which probably explains why your posts are so inclined, but engineers don't merit themselves on their maths skills: we're problem solvers primarily. As Smack has said, maths is only a means used to quantify concepts - perhaps an easier way to think about it would be if you and I were having an discussion about Politics in Spanish: a good knowledge of Spanish will help you get your point across better, but ultimately it's your argument that will make or break you. Bit random but there you go

Well now you've just gone back on loads of things you said.
Ok, true, but definately implied he wouldn't need it to the same extent.

You also said:

Make up your mind.

You mean the bit you edited in? I don't think its that black and white, in fact i'd argue oil and gas engineering isn't that technologically advanced, just has a massive investment in it, which is a completely different thing.

Just because your uni has links with oil and gas and you obviously have stuff about them pushed down your throats doesn't mean you need to shove it down ours too.

I'm going to ignore the personal attack and just take it as a sign that you're unable to express yourself properly to argue your points.

So your studying mecheng (not electrical) at Aberdeen or wherever, so you know more about the relevance of STEP and AEA in applying to Cambridge and Imperial than someone who's actually applied to them this year? I doubt you applied to them, have had interviews with them and have an idea of what they think of STEP and AEA.

Step and AEA might be an advantage when it comes to entry to an undergrad engineering degree at some universities. I don't know anything about undergrad entry policies so you're best contact the universities you're interested in applying to and ask them.

Did he say he dosen't enjoy doing these things? All you know about the OP is that he enjoys maths, which I think is perfect for engineering.

Like I said, completely different course at a completely different uni, interested in a very different sector. You've based it all on your 'feelings' though so great..

I don't think you actually read what I have written at all, have you?

Yes but isn't it possible that he finds engineering fascinating and building stuff and all that AND also enjoys maths. These uni's are asking for A*'s in maths for a reason.

I get that maths is a tool for engineers, but how can enjoying something that you will have to do and use a lot not be a good thing? And I'd also argue that STEP tests your problem solving skills as much as your mathematical ability, even if its not an physical problem.

If he enjoyed maths, and didn't like physics or building things or solving problems, then of course I would suggest a maths degree. But I've ASSUMED that he enjoys all these things, otherwise he wouldn't have posted here, while Smack has ASSUMED that because he only put he enjoys maths that he doesn't enjoy all those other things.