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The man who conned his way into Harvard - Inspiration or Cautionary Tale?

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This guy is flipping great. Ok, he obviously has some sort of compulsive need to lie (I think that could be clear - just because the only reason he was caught was because he went after the/one of the most prestigious scholarships ever)
he'd make a good politician
Original post by Addzter
Lol, do you really think people might look down on a Harvard degree just because some guy lied to get in one time? :lol: The prestige of universities is based on how good their research is, mainly, not how good they are at detecting liars. That said, Harvard have only themselves to blame for not detecting that this guy was a fraud. If they'd have looked in to some of his outlandish claims, he wouldn't have got as far as he did.


You're right about the first part of your post, partly anyway. Harvard and Oxbridge and others prestige don't come from their research rather their history, they're generally the early universities even if some universities score higher than them on research, they will still be known as the most prestigious.

The second part is false. They don't have themselves to blame, how are they supposed to know? If manchild007 correct, I don't believe it's their fault. They checked his references and he had them. They can't scrutinise applicants like it's a job interview for MI6.

Also, I can assure you his claims aren't outlandish. I have seen a variety of different Harvard applicants stats (grades, extra curricular etc etc) on the internet and you would be surprised at how many have done some amazing extra curricular activities (e.g. professional research paper on X or built a plane). In British universities you won't see things like that because extra curricular activities aren't really that important.
Original post by im so academic


It's in the daily mail as well , same article but more in depth.
Original post by Annoying-Mouse

The second part is false. They don't have themselves to blame, how are they supposed to know? If manchild007 correct, I don't believe it's their fault. They checked his references and he had them. They can't scrutinise applicants like it's a job interview for MI6.

Also, I can assure you his claims aren't outlandish. I have seen a variety of different Harvard applicants stats (grades, extra curricular etc etc) on the internet and you would be surprised at how many have done some amazing extra curricular activities (e.g. professional research paper on X or built a plane). In British universities you won't see things like that because extra curricular activities aren't really that important.


Can I just strongly commend your last paragraph - people are saying, "Oh how can Harvard not realise this guy was lying when he said he published books etc, they must be naive/idiots" - when you actually look at the level of applicants applying to Harvard, this guys application is nothing spectacular. You genuinely have Olympic level athletes, students with published research, literary geniuses with many published books applying - its just the tip of the iceberg.

Universities like Oxbridge don't even compare, not b/c they don't take EC's on board (a flawed method in my view), but b/c Harvard is just a level above everyone else (for them to judge by just grades is simply impossible, as virtually everyone has straight As' and 2400's on the SAT etc) - you are talking about the best university in the world, and one which had produced some of the best research on a consistent basis.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Annoying-Mouse
It's in the daily mail as well , same article but more in depth.


To be honest, the Daily Mail is horribly sensationalist, so I always take there articles with a HUGE pinch of salt, as they usually aren't the most factually 'secure' piece of journalism out there.
Original post by a_t
I just read this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/17/student-conned-harvard-sorry

This guy is quite brilliant and so nearly pulled it off, and it led me to contemplate my completely clean and factual CV which has finally got me some work but it is still 100% truth

If I added to it and embellished it well, would it catch up to me? Likely not unless I went too far, but is it worth while doing this in the application form processes required to enter large companies for most people? Adding internships and prizes? Experience and prestige?

Or should we be worried that we'll be the next Stuart Baggs

What do you think?


Amazing skill but don't try this at home kids - this man has natural talent few of us have. He could easily become an undercover agent, an actor, a master salesman or something had he applied his raw potential to actual work.
Original post by Glowy Amoeba
He could easily become an undercover agent


Seeing as undercover agents aren't recruited through the normal process and rather recruited through different methods and from the skills they show (e.g. hacking), how do you know he hasn't already become one? :wink2:
Original post by Annoying-Mouse
Seeing as undercover agents aren't recruited through the normal process and rather recruited through different methods and from the skills they show (e.g. hacking), how do you know he hasn't already become one? :wink2:


I don't know, being featured in a top news story and having your face known across the world doesn't seem like a career boost for spies. :tongue:
Original post by Glowy Amoeba
I don't know, being featured in a top news story and having your face known across the world doesn't seem like a career boost for spies. :tongue:


He doesn't really have his face across the world and it's only a very, very small population that will see his picture. Also, this is a master of deception. Also, don't forgot that if he needs to go undercover, he has the perfect cover. He is already a known criminal, no one will suspect him.
Original post by Annoying-Mouse
He doesn't really have his face across the world and it's only a very, very small population that will see his picture. Also, this is a master of deception. Also, don't forgot that if he needs to go undercover, he has the perfect cover. He is already a known criminal, no one will suspect him.


Yes... yes... excellent :devil:
Reply 51
Avatar for ish90an
ish90an
10
Not surprised, the last Dean of Admissions at MIT hid the fact that she did not have an undergrad degree for a very long time and it only came to light after she came clean herself.
Original post by Addzter
Wow. I wonder, if he'd not applied for the grants and scholarships, he'd still have been prosecuted for what he did? I think it's pretty harsh that he's not allowed to profit from his escapades, I mean it's not like he harmed anyone doing what he did.


I'm sure he indirectly did though - whilst I don't know much about the US university scholarship system, I'd hazard that him receiving a scholarship means that there is someone else who didn't receive one - someone who actually deserved a scholarship and needed one didn't get one because of him - that person may not have gone to Harvard because they didn't get that scholarship - they've been majorly cheated.
Reply 53
Avatar for Shmeiks
Shmeiks
2
This guy has balls. I like balls. He took the risk and unfortunately he got greedy, an inspiration.
Wow, impressive...he should have a career in politics, maybe he'd give nick clegg a run for his money! Who can be the greater liar :yep:
Original post by Bubbles*de*Milo
I'm sure he indirectly did though - whilst I don't know much about the US university scholarship system, I'd hazard that him receiving a scholarship means that there is someone else who didn't receive one - someone who actually deserved a scholarship and needed one didn't get one because of him - that person may not have gone to Harvard because they didn't get that scholarship - they've been majorly cheated.


But even if someone did lose out on a scholarship or grant because of his actions, they wouldn't know about it. That's why I think it's unfair to stop him from profiting from speaking out about what he did.
Reply 56
Avatar for micky022
micky022
16
Original post by Addzter
Again, nobody would know whether it was they who lost out on the scholarship due to the conman's actions, so nobody would know that they're a victim.


However, if he won the Scholarship's only place, he's disadvantaged everyone else who applied truthfully. There doesn't need to be a singular, identifiable victim; everyone who applied for the scholarship was damaged by his actions.
Original post by Addzter
But even if someone did lose out on a scholarship or grant because of his actions, they wouldn't know about it. That's why I think it's unfair to stop him from profiting from speaking out about what he did.


That's a strange logic - just because you don't know you were wronged doesn't mean you weren't.
Original post by Bubbles*de*Milo
That's a strange logic - just because you don't know you were wronged doesn't mean you weren't.


But if you didn't know you were wronged, you wouldn't care if he was making money from his crimes. Those kinds of restrictions aren't put upon all criminals.
Original post by PortiaLovesMcqueen
There is a guy I know who bought a certificate to say he gained 4 grade A A Levels when he actually got ABCC.

He bought them off the internet and got into UCL to study Politics.

He is in 3rd year now and is yet to get caught. I doubt he will.


Wow :eek:

I would be on edge all the time if I was him but I suppose now he's third year, he's hardly going to get caught at this stage...

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