This should be fun - WW3
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Original post by DH-Biker
South Korea (not looking for an in-depth argument here) is hardly defenseless. There will be numerous casualties for the North Korean forces too. The DMZ is hardly a walk in the park.
Granted they don't have anywhere near the same military force that the North Koreans do, but I agree, it will be a battle that costs millions of lives.
Do you think America's intervention is a far-fetched theory, too? I'm honestly unsure if they will involve themselves. A security detail, maybe?
Granted they don't have anywhere near the same military force that the North Koreans do, but I agree, it will be a battle that costs millions of lives.
Do you think America's intervention is a far-fetched theory, too? I'm honestly unsure if they will involve themselves. A security detail, maybe?
America would become immediately involved. The US has a substantial deployment along the DMZ and a naval squadron at Okinawa, including the USS George Washington - a supercarrier. The moment that South Korea is attacked (or, less likely, attacks) is the moment that the US becomes involved.
I think that a South Korean victory is somewhat inevitable should it come to a full-scale war, but it will be a Pyrrhic victory. Seoul will be in ruins due to it's proximity to the DMZ and Korean artillery, and with it much of the South Korean government, cultural heritage and millions of people.
Original post by chaz1992
Hmm, South Korea seem to be getting ripped off compared to North Korea. I mean they have a budget 5 times larger than North Korea and yet own half as much in comparison. I know the North Korean budget is an estimate but that surely can't be right.
Hmm, South Korea seem to be getting ripped off compared to North Korea. I mean they have a budget 5 times larger than North Korea and yet own half as much in comparison. I know the North Korean budget is an estimate but that surely can't be right.
It's not just quantity, but quality. South Korean hardware is hugely more capable compared to the 50s-70s era Korean stuff. For example, the North Korean navy can't even put patrols out beyond their continental shelf because their ships are so badly maintained, but South Korea has helicopter carriers and advanced guided missile destroyers.
Original post by Lucy :)
I live in Barrow~! 
Well about 4 miles away in Dalton.
Well about 4 miles away in Dalton.Well, you know how Barrow has the last Submarine Yards in the UK that are still operating? And they're making the Astute Class at present? Well, its a fair bet (if this does turn into the Third World War), that the enemy wont want them patrolling the ocean around their countries.
It was target number 2 on the Russian's target list during the Cold War.
Whether it is to Korea? Probably not...
I wouldn't worry.
Original post by Alvrae
are you psychotic??
if we entered an all out nuclear war, what little of the planet that wasn't nuked to begin with would have radioactive fallout on it... how could you be excited at the prospect of entire countries being wiped out?
a nuclear war would be severly worse than previous world wars. simply because there would be very little left of what was hit. look what happened in hiroshima and nagasarky when the atom bomb went off! these nuclear warheads are several times more powerful!
i highly doubt the north koreans would want every world power with the means to do so, bomb it flat with as much TNT as the can get there hands on... besides if there scrapping nuclear treaties what makes you think NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) weapons wont be used all together?
if i could neg rep you i would...
if we entered an all out nuclear war, what little of the planet that wasn't nuked to begin with would have radioactive fallout on it... how could you be excited at the prospect of entire countries being wiped out?
a nuclear war would be severly worse than previous world wars. simply because there would be very little left of what was hit. look what happened in hiroshima and nagasarky when the atom bomb went off! these nuclear warheads are several times more powerful!
i highly doubt the north koreans would want every world power with the means to do so, bomb it flat with as much TNT as the can get there hands on... besides if there scrapping nuclear treaties what makes you think NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) weapons wont be used all together?
if i could neg rep you i would...
I envisage a world of a post apocalyptic wasteland where every man is fighting for survival against the hordes of mutant zombies that have risen as a result of this conflict.
Now sir, can you tell me that this would not be the most awesome thing ever to grace God's earth? Didn't think so.
Don't worry man I have accepted your apology.
Empty threats, which is just used to intimidate and 99% sure they wont follow it up with action.
I think TSR is a bit too excited with WW3. Bored or nothing to do for X-MAS perhaps?
I think TSR is a bit too excited with WW3. Bored or nothing to do for X-MAS perhaps?
Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
America would become immediately involved. The US has a substantial deployment along the DMZ and a naval squadron at Okinawa, including the USS George Washington - a supercarrier. The moment that South Korea is attacked (or, less likely, attacks) is the moment that the US becomes involved.
I think that a South Korean victory is somewhat inevitable should it come to a full-scale war, but it will be a Pyrrhic victory. Seoul will be in ruins due to it's proximity to the DMZ and Korean artillery, and with it much of the South Korean government, cultural heritage and millions of people.
I think that a South Korean victory is somewhat inevitable should it come to a full-scale war, but it will be a Pyrrhic victory. Seoul will be in ruins due to it's proximity to the DMZ and Korean artillery, and with it much of the South Korean government, cultural heritage and millions of people.
South Korean Artillery must surely have equal range, though? And with recon aircraft, surely they are going to be equally devastating on the North Korean side too? If they have the same M119 and M109A6 Self-Propelled Mobile Artillery Units as the Americans have (I was sure they have many of the same military vehicles) they its both accurate, deadly and has the range to match everything the North Koreans have except towed-artillery. Right?
I vaguely remember the US having a permanent presence there. I wasn't, however, aware they had a Naval Base there. Especially one anchoring the very prestigious Washington. Though, they do have 11, it should be obvious they have them at every key area on the Globe. The Washington is the very, very large Aircraft Carrier, isn't it?
Something like an 800 meter hull? (Or so I think I remember).
If that's the case, then, the North Koreans have no chance. However, a 1 Megaton Cruise Missile Warhead would love to meet such a huge target. Then again, with Phalanx and GoalKeeper Anti-Missile and Aircraft weaponry, such targets would be a very hard choice. Artillery shells are also able to be shot out the sky, but a mix of both...
Agreed on your last, though. South Korea would no longer be able to hoist itself and would need masses of support from NATO. North Korea's over-lord dark shadow rule in the East would be a mere memory, though.
Original post by MAchInE_hEAd
I envisage a world of a post apocalyptic wasteland where every man is fighting for survival against the hordes of mutant zombies that have risen as a result of this conflict.
Now sir, can you tell me that this would not be the most awesome thing ever to grace God's earth? Didn't think so.
Don't worry man I have accepted your apology.
Now sir, can you tell me that this would not be the most awesome thing ever to grace God's earth? Didn't think so.
Don't worry man I have accepted your apology.
You sir, have been watching too much films. I can assure you that it wont end up like Resident Evil or by you saving some hot girl like it probably sounds like in your fantasies you made up after staying in front of the computer for god knows how long.
Not get back to earth, go outside and breathe some fresh air.
Original post by MAchInE_hEAd
I envisage a world of a post apocalyptic wasteland where every man is fighting for survival against the hordes of mutant zombies that have risen as a result of this conflict.
Now sir, can you tell me that this would not be the most awesome thing ever to grace God's earth? Didn't think so.
Don't worry man I have accepted your apology.
Now sir, can you tell me that this would not be the most awesome thing ever to grace God's earth? Didn't think so.
Don't worry man I have accepted your apology.
Yes, because Fallout, Metro and S.T.A.L.K.E.R are all very, very likely to happen.
Genetic mutations on the scale such games portray are a myth. The worst mutation would be nothing more then a stump of a third arm. Entirely true due to pictures taken of victims at the Chernobyl Incident.
Billions dead, the surface could no longer support life and people would starve. You wouldn't get to experience your cushy-cushy world.
Such films and games about the aftermath of a Nuclear War being all lovely, clear and full of mutated animals are nothing more then fiction.
Original post by DH-Biker
South Korean Artillery must surely have equal range, though? And with recon aircraft, surely they are going to be equally devastating on the North Korean side too? If they have the same M119 and M109A6 Self-Propelled Mobile Artillery Units as the Americans have (I was sure they have many of the same military vehicles) they its both accurate, deadly and has the range to match everything the North Koreans have except towed-artillery. Right?
I vaguely remember the US having a permanent presence there. I wasn't, however, aware they had a Naval Base there. Especially one anchoring the very prestigious Washington. Though, they do have 11, it should be obvious they have them at every key area on the Globe. The Washington is the very, very large Aircraft Carrier, isn't it?
Something like an 800 meter hull? (Or so I think I remember).
If that's the case, then, the North Koreans have no chance. However, a 1 Megaton Cruise Missile Warhead would love to meet such a huge target. Then again, with Phalanx and GoalKeeper Anti-Missile and Aircraft weaponry, such targets would be a very hard choice. Artillery shells are also able to be shot out the sky, but a mix of both...
Agreed on your last, though. South Korea would no longer be able to hoist itself and would need masses of support from NATO. North Korea's over-lord dark shadow rule in the East would be a mere memory, though.
I vaguely remember the US having a permanent presence there. I wasn't, however, aware they had a Naval Base there. Especially one anchoring the very prestigious Washington. Though, they do have 11, it should be obvious they have them at every key area on the Globe. The Washington is the very, very large Aircraft Carrier, isn't it?
Something like an 800 meter hull? (Or so I think I remember).
If that's the case, then, the North Koreans have no chance. However, a 1 Megaton Cruise Missile Warhead would love to meet such a huge target. Then again, with Phalanx and GoalKeeper Anti-Missile and Aircraft weaponry, such targets would be a very hard choice. Artillery shells are also able to be shot out the sky, but a mix of both...
Agreed on your last, though. South Korea would no longer be able to hoist itself and would need masses of support from NATO. North Korea's over-lord dark shadow rule in the East would be a mere memory, though.
Okinawa is a Japanese island, but the Washington is deployed there primarily as a deterrent to North Korea
330m length, 100,000t+ displacement, 90+ aircraft, 5,700 crew - it means business.South Korean artillery is better than North Korea's, but the problem is that there's no major NK population centers near the DMZ. Seoul and Inchon on the other hand, are directly next door to the DMZ.
Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
Okinawa is a Japanese island, but the Washington is deployed there primarily as a deterrent to North Korea 330m length, 100,000t+ displacement, 90+ aircraft, 5,700 crew - it means business.
South Korean artillery is better than North Korea's, but the problem is that there's no major NK population centers near the DMZ. Seoul and Inchon on the other hand, are directly next door to the DMZ.
330m length, 100,000t+ displacement, 90+ aircraft, 5,700 crew - it means business.South Korean artillery is better than North Korea's, but the problem is that there's no major NK population centers near the DMZ. Seoul and Inchon on the other hand, are directly next door to the DMZ.
I thought Pyongyang was only slightly further than Seoul to the DMZ though, so surely that's within artillery range?
Original post by Stirlo
I thought Pyongyang was only slightly further than Seoul to the DMZ though, so surely that's within artillery range?
Nope. Pyongyang is well outside of artillery range
Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
Okinawa is a Japanese island, but the Washington is deployed there primarily as a deterrent to North Korea 330m length, 100,000t+ displacement, 90+ aircraft, 5,700 crew - it means business.
South Korean artillery is better than North Korea's, but the problem is that there's no major NK population centers near the DMZ. Seoul and Inchon on the other hand, are directly next door to the DMZ.
330m length, 100,000t+ displacement, 90+ aircraft, 5,700 crew - it means business.South Korean artillery is better than North Korea's, but the problem is that there's no major NK population centers near the DMZ. Seoul and Inchon on the other hand, are directly next door to the DMZ.
Apologies, I meant to say "there in the area", though Okinawa isn't even in the area.
Again, apologies for the massive misjudgment in Length. I was sure it was larger then 300 meters, but that's still one hell of a length for a Carrier.
What's the Title Name of the other Super-Carrier? Nimitz, is it? I'm unsure of the dimensions of American Carriers, at least to a large extent.
With nigh on 6,000 crew, and nigh on 100 aircraft, it definitely does mean business.
The Aircraft wont be anything larger then an F-15 Eagle, but they're still definitely still capable of dropping a 2,000lb JDAM onto anything within hundreds of miles. Cluster bombs, ITEPM and torpedoes - hardly a weak choice of aircraft, I suppose.
Do you think it will result in a ground invasion of North Korea? Or will the US and SK just paradrop in men and LAVs / APCs and just T&H strategic areas?
Suppose, the DMZ is fully capable of holding off an attack. 30ft concrete walls, trenches, tank-traps both Dragon Teeth and Long-Fang. Anti-Tank, Aircraft and Infantry emplacements - Its hardly a walk across open fields, eh? Funny... DMZ = Ok, well just buff the hell up on the outsides.
It will almost certainly be North Korea to cross it first though, don't you think?
Original post by MAchInE_hEAd
I envisage a world of a post apocalyptic wasteland where every man is fighting for survival against the hordes of mutant zombies that have risen as a result of this conflict.
Now sir, can you tell me that this would not be the most awesome thing ever to grace God's earth? Didn't think so.
Don't worry man I have accepted your apology.
Now sir, can you tell me that this would not be the most awesome thing ever to grace God's earth? Didn't think so.
Don't worry man I have accepted your apology.
I don't think they found many "mutant zombies" in japan...
your knowledge and experiences from the XBOX and other consoles seemed to have removed a scence of what war would be like on this scale. the chances of you surviving to even see your dream of a "mutant zombie" world are un-realistic.
in GAMES yes i agree its a good aspect, but you are obveusly oblivious to facts of life. you don't understand what war is really like. you assume you would survive such a horrific war.
the following wikipedia link probably isnt 100% accurate but it will do to serve this purpose;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
in Hiroshima alone the death toll is predicted between 90,000 to 166,000. the population of hiroshima was predicted to be around 300,000 people.
those bombs (9,700 pound uranium bombs) aren't as powerful as the megatun, nuclear warheads we now possess (the uranium is more highly enriched now than it was, see plutonium).
extract from 'http://www.cfo.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/hiroshima.htm'
"Those closest to the explosion died instantly, their bodies turned to black char. Nearby birds burst into flames in mid-air, and dry, combustible materials such as paper instantly ignited as far away as 6,400 feet from ground zero. The white light acted as a giant flashbulb, burning the dark patterns of clothing onto skin (right) and the shadows of bodies onto walls. Survivors outdoors close to the blast generally describe a literally blinding light combined with a sudden and overwhelming wave of heat. (The effects of radiation are usually not immediately apparent.) The blast wave followed almost instantly for those close-in, often knocking them from their feet. Those that were indoors were usually spared the flash burns, but flying glass from broken windows filled most rooms, and all but the very strongest structures collapsed. One boy was blown through the windows of his house and across the street as the house collapsed behind him. Within minutes 9 out of 10 people half a mile or less from ground zero were dead."
after that there where fire storms killing anyone to injured to get out the way.
then after that people where still dieing in vast numbers several months after it went on...
Original post by Alvrae
I don't think they found many "mutant zombies" in japan...
your knowledge and experiences from the XBOX and other consoles seemed to have removed a scence of what war would be like on this scale. the chances of you surviving to even see your dream of a "mutant zombie" world are un-realistic.
etcetcetc
your knowledge and experiences from the XBOX and other consoles seemed to have removed a scence of what war would be like on this scale. the chances of you surviving to even see your dream of a "mutant zombie" world are un-realistic.
etcetcetc
It's okay if you cant make it, just stay behind me and we will get through this. Let those with experience handle this kind of stuff.
It won't be WW3 - nobody will back North Korea.
Russia has been growing more solidarity towards the West in recent times, and is even helping in Afghanistan.
China knows that currently, the USA is a superior miltary power. Much of its economic development, so crucial to its potential power in future years, depends on the Western market.
So you WW3 doomsayers are either thoughtless or sensationalist.
Russia has been growing more solidarity towards the West in recent times, and is even helping in Afghanistan.
China knows that currently, the USA is a superior miltary power. Much of its economic development, so crucial to its potential power in future years, depends on the Western market.
So you WW3 doomsayers are either thoughtless or sensationalist.
Original post by concubine
You seem to be missing the relatively important point that numbers are far from everything these days. The equipment employed by the South is far superior. And that, you know, whereas South Korea would have the backing of the most powerful country in the world, the North is unlikely to get any sort of war winning assistance from anyone.
Totally right, long gone are the days of medieval past where shear numbers of forces in an army meant you're almost always more likely to win, modern war is weird... hard to actually imagine, it's not even fought en masse on land anymore - The 'Iraq war' recently had several thousand - ten thousands of coalition troops rolling around the desert in open combat, taking towns and cities but not like out in the open against thousands of Iraqi national guard or Taliban
like the last 'all out' modern war was... Operation Desert storm in the early 90s? Even that was nothing compared to other wars decades before that, there was no actual war or deciding battle in the cold war either so...
It's hard to even imagine a straightforward modern land battle cos it just doesn't happen often and so many things contribute to an armies' victory these days, political alliances and scrutiny, resources, technology or lack of etc etc etc
Original post by milkytea
It won't be WW3 - nobody will back North Korea.
Russia has been growing more solidarity towards the West in recent times, and is even helping in Afghanistan.
China knows that currently, the USA is a superior miltary power. Much of its economic development, so crucial to its potential power in future years, depends on the Western market.
So you WW3 doomsayers are either thoughtless or sensationalist.
Russia has been growing more solidarity towards the West in recent times, and is even helping in Afghanistan.
China knows that currently, the USA is a superior miltary power. Much of its economic development, so crucial to its potential power in future years, depends on the Western market.
So you WW3 doomsayers are either thoughtless or sensationalist.
The first and second paragraphs I agree with, the latter, possibly, but the third? Just no...
The United States Military, whilst having technology in terms of air-power, has high yet low end equipment in every other strand of their Armed Forces.
Their Vehicles break down left, right and centre, their standard issue firearms jam and overheat, and as soon as a speck of dirt gets in the firing mechanism - that's it...
The only aspect they exceed in is Air-Superiority. Even then, its not a large distance.
Don't make the common mistake of suggesting that America's Armed Forces are, in all ways, Superior to the Chinese P.A.
I could write you an essay, but I can sum up in saying:
"Yes, the American Army is the strongest in the world. However, the CPA is 2nd by a very, very close margin". To pit the two against each other, I would put money on the CPA.
Original post by chaz1992
Hmm, South Korea seem to be getting ripped off compared to North Korea. I mean they have a budget 5 times larger than North Korea and yet own half as much in comparison. I know the North Korean budget is an estimate but that surely can't be right.
Hmm, South Korea seem to be getting ripped off compared to North Korea. I mean they have a budget 5 times larger than North Korea and yet own half as much in comparison. I know the North Korean budget is an estimate but that surely can't be right.
But north korea's equipment is poorly maintained, and mostly 50/60 years old.
Either way. They wont go to war.
The south wont risk their advanced economy. And the north can not win.
Its not in anyone favour to go to war.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by DH-Biker
The first and second paragraphs I agree with, the latter, possibly, but the third? Just no...
The United States Military, whilst having technology in terms of air-power, has high yet low end equipment in every other strand of their Armed Forces.
Their Vehicles break down left, right and centre, their standard issue firearms jam and overheat, and as soon as a speck of dirt gets in the firing mechanism - that's it...
The only aspect they exceed in is Air-Superiority. Even then, its not a large distance.
Don't make the common mistake of suggesting that America's Armed Forces are, in all ways, Superior to the Chinese P.A.
I could write you an essay, but I can sum up in saying:
"Yes, the American Army is the strongest in the world. However, the CPA is 2nd by a very, very close margin". To pit the two against each other, I would put money on the CPA.
The United States Military, whilst having technology in terms of air-power, has high yet low end equipment in every other strand of their Armed Forces.
Their Vehicles break down left, right and centre, their standard issue firearms jam and overheat, and as soon as a speck of dirt gets in the firing mechanism - that's it...
The only aspect they exceed in is Air-Superiority. Even then, its not a large distance.
Don't make the common mistake of suggesting that America's Armed Forces are, in all ways, Superior to the Chinese P.A.
I could write you an essay, but I can sum up in saying:
"Yes, the American Army is the strongest in the world. However, the CPA is 2nd by a very, very close margin". To pit the two against each other, I would put money on the CPA.
Unfortunately I can't pretend to be a military expert. From all the impressions I've had and articles I've read, however, it would seem that the USA's army is considerably superior.
It doesn't matter either way because the USA has the backing of the entire Western world. Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, Japan. Which makes slight differences between the US and China's power merely academic and, tbh, unimportant.
China does not want a war with the West when it's military capability is not, or barely, equal to the USA's. And that's all that matters.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by DH-Biker
The first and second paragraphs I agree with, the latter, possibly, but the third? Just no...
The United States Military, whilst having technology in terms of air-power, has high yet low end equipment in every other strand of their Armed Forces.
Their Vehicles break down left, right and centre, their standard issue firearms jam and overheat, and as soon as a speck of dirt gets in the firing mechanism - that's it...
The only aspect they exceed in is Air-Superiority. Even then, its not a large distance.
Don't make the common mistake of suggesting that America's Armed Forces are, in all ways, Superior to the Chinese P.A.
I could write you an essay, but I can sum up in saying:
"Yes, the American Army is the strongest in the world. However, the CPA is 2nd by a very, very close margin". To pit the two against each other, I would put money on the CPA.
The United States Military, whilst having technology in terms of air-power, has high yet low end equipment in every other strand of their Armed Forces.
Their Vehicles break down left, right and centre, their standard issue firearms jam and overheat, and as soon as a speck of dirt gets in the firing mechanism - that's it...
The only aspect they exceed in is Air-Superiority. Even then, its not a large distance.
Don't make the common mistake of suggesting that America's Armed Forces are, in all ways, Superior to the Chinese P.A.
I could write you an essay, but I can sum up in saying:
"Yes, the American Army is the strongest in the world. However, the CPA is 2nd by a very, very close margin". To pit the two against each other, I would put money on the CPA.
You know, Im glad someone else knows what their on about...
Im sick of people, with the deluded idea that the american army is the best by miles..
Have any of you guys seen their marines training? its a joke...
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