State sponsered Christmas holidays - unsecular?
Can any country really call itself secular if it makes Christmas day and days around Christmas a national holiday?
Doesn't it amount to the implicit state support of Christianity over other religions?
Doesn't it amount to the implicit state support of Christianity over other religions?
(edited 13 years ago)
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No, because Christmas hardly is anything to do with Christianity anymore.
Its about the presents, food and 2 weeks holiday nowadays.
Its about the presents, food and 2 weeks holiday nowadays.
Original post by WhatamIdoing
No, because Christmas hardly is anything to do with Christianity anymore.
Its about the presents, food and 2 weeks holiday nowadays.
Its about the presents, food and 2 weeks holiday nowadays.
It is indicative of a Christian state. Muslim states like Iraq/Afganistan don't have state supported Christmas Holidays. Christian dominated Western States do so it continues to divide our civilisations.
Original post by TheRevolution
It is indicative of a Christian state. Muslim states like Iraq/Afganistan don't have state supported Christmas Holidays. Christian dominated Western States do so it continues to divide our civilisations.
Quite obviously they don't, as they never had it in the first place. We had it during our time as a Christian country, liked it and kept it upon turning secular.
And it's hardly divisive. A time of year where you get holidays, an excuse to pig out and receive gifts, and write cards/call up to people you may have once lost contact with. It's actually the opposite.
Also, I know many Muslims who celebrate Christmas with their families; eat, give gifts, sit about and watch **** TV, the whole deal.
Original post by WhatamIdoing
Quite obviously they don't, as they never had it in the first place. We had it during our time as a Christian country, liked it and kept it upon turning secular.
And it's hardly divisive. A time of year where you get holidays, an excuse to pig out and receive gifts, and write cards/call up to people you may have once lost contact with. It's actually the opposite.
Also, I know many Muslims who celebrate Christmas with their families; eat, give gifts, sit about and watch **** TV, the whole deal.
And it's hardly divisive. A time of year where you get holidays, an excuse to pig out and receive gifts, and write cards/call up to people you may have once lost contact with. It's actually the opposite.
Also, I know many Muslims who celebrate Christmas with their families; eat, give gifts, sit about and watch **** TV, the whole deal.
Lol, it's not divisive in the sense that it helps ppl keep in touch but clearly that's besides the point I was making.
That's interesting about the Muslim families.
To many Muslims However, need I mention Al Qaeda, Christmas is a symbol of Christianity.
Original post by TheRevolution
Lol, it's not divisive in the sense that it helps ppl keep in touch but clearly that's besides the point I was making.
That's interesting about the Muslim families.
To many Muslims However, need I mention Al Qaeda, Christmas is a symbol of Christianity.
That's interesting about the Muslim families.
To many Muslims However, need I mention Al Qaeda, Christmas is a symbol of Christianity.
Lol @ you thinking Al Qaeda is 1)Too many muslims 2)Representative of the wider muslim population.
Christmas would've been a symbol of Christianity 20-40 years back, maybe, but now it's a symbol of festivity and gift giving, mainly. Oh, and Coke.
I suppose so technically, but I challenge you to find a Holiday that doesn't have religious links.
Original post by WhatamIdoing
Quite obviously they don't, as they never had it in the first place. We had it during our time as a Christian country, liked it and kept it upon turning secular.
This is a British forum, 'we' are the UK - which is not a secular state by any manner of means: indeed, if anything, it's closer to being a theocracy.
Original post by L i b
This is a British forum, 'we' are the UK - which is not a secular state by any manner of means: indeed, if anything, it's closer to being a theocracy.
Is it?
I thought it was secular.
Oh well, it's defined as ambiguous.
And I disagree that it's closer to being a theocracy, but that's just my opinion.
Original post by L i b
This is a British forum, 'we' are the UK - which is not a secular state by any manner of means: indeed, if anything, it's closer to being a theocracy.
Can you explain this?
Original post by WhatamIdoing
Is it?
I thought it was secular.
Oh well, it's defined as ambiguous.
And I disagree that it's closer to being a theocracy, but that's just my opinion.
I thought it was secular.
Oh well, it's defined as ambiguous.
And I disagree that it's closer to being a theocracy, but that's just my opinion.
There is widespread secularism amongst the population, however the machinery of the state still has heavy theocratic weighting. The house of Lords contains 26 bishops who in addition to having voting and speaking rights speak Christian prayers at the start of each day in parliament. The head of state of this country is also supreme governor of the state religion. etc. etc.
Original post by Nefarious
There is widespread secularism amongst the population, however the machinery of the state still has heavy theocratic weighting. The house of Lords contains 26 bishops who in addition to having voting and speaking rights speak Christian prayers at the start of each day in parliament. The head of state of this country is also supreme governor of the state religion. etc. etc.
Hmm, yeah. I understand that now after reading up on it.
Original post by TheRevolution
Can any country really call itself secular if it makes Christmas day and days around Christmas a national holiday?
Doesn't it amount to the implicit state support of Christianity over other religions?
Doesn't it amount to the implicit state support of Christianity over other religions?
Original post by sandys1000
I suppose so technically, but I challenge you to find a Holiday that doesn't have religious links.
Earth Day? Labour Day?
Original post by WhatamIdoing
Is it?
I thought it was secular.
Oh well, it's defined as ambiguous.
And I disagree that it's closer to being a theocracy, but that's just my opinion.
I thought it was secular.
Oh well, it's defined as ambiguous.
And I disagree that it's closer to being a theocracy, but that's just my opinion.
The country is officially religious. However in practice our society is pretty secular.
I suppose official Christmas holidays isn't very secular, but if you think about it, it's not that different to why Christians started celebrating Christmas in the first place. Before Christianity the people of Britain were pagan and celebrated various pagan winter festivals, they wanted to keep celebrating them when they became Christians so they turned them into Christmas. What's happening now is essentially the same. The UK used to be mostly Christian, and now non-Christians want to keep celebrating the holiday.
Original post by WhatamIdoing
Is it?
I thought it was secular.
Oh well, it's defined as ambiguous.
And I disagree that it's closer to being a theocracy, but that's just my opinion.
I thought it was secular.
Oh well, it's defined as ambiguous.
And I disagree that it's closer to being a theocracy, but that's just my opinion.
There is very few country who clearly defined themselves as secular, I know three : France, China and Turkey (it's in their constitution). I think those kind of country are less than ten in the whole world (I supposed you can add North Korea and maybe Myanmar).
In France you still have holidays related to Christian events because it's tradition. You can't change centuries of tradition just because it happened some non-western immigrant come to live in your country. Plus France became a secular state in 1905, and at that time non-western immigrant were not an issue and well you need to put the holidays at some time.
We're not technically a secular country anyway. Plus besides, even if having a Christmas holiday is technically endorsing one religion, it's not like any of our main parties aim to further the cause of Christianity within the UK. Even if Christmas didn't take place we'd probably still have a holiday around then anyway for the new year, so it really makes no difference, and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't really matter if we're not technically the dictionary definition of secular. As long as religion doesn't start having a truly influential role in politics, I'm really not bothered.
Original post by TheRevolution
It is indicative of a Christian state. Muslim states like Iraq/Afganistan don't have state supported Christmas Holidays. Christian dominated Western States do so it continues to divide our civilisations.
Their holidays for Eid and Ramadan don't "divide civilisations".
Your hideous double standards sicken me.
Original post by TheRevolution
It is indicative of a Christian state. Muslim states like Iraq/Afganistan don't have state supported Christmas Holidays. Christian dominated Western States do so it continues to divide our civilisations.
In which way respected a country culture is divided civilizations ? It's like the only people in the world who should not care about their own culture are westerners. Is it prohibited from us to respect our traditions in our own countries ? Will you blame Chinese because they have holidays for Chinese new year ?
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