The State/ Private School Debate!
I'm 15, I go to one of the biggest coeducational comprehensive schools in the UK and I'm predicted 8 A*s and 2 As in my GCSEs. My brother is 18 and has been made a conditional offer to study for an MPhys at Durham University.
My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
There were a number of reasons for this.
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
There were a number of reasons for this.
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
Scroll to see replies
Rah rampage impending
Original post by LizzieHibbert
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
1) There are plenty of mixed private schools.
2) 90% of Britain is white, with Asians making up the next largest ethnicity. If you go to school in London, there will obviously be more minorities (or majorities
), whereas if you go to school in Cornwall, there will be few minorities.3) Many private schools are non-selective; so as long as you pay your fees, you an attend the school.
4&5 could be applied to both state and private.
6) I go to a private school, and we are not taught that we are elite. However, dont you think that intellectual ability makes somebody more employable, and therefore more useful, and better, for society?
Just my 2 cents
I go to AGSB which is near your area - it isn't 'exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin' and I'm pretty sure I can motivate myself
Original post by LizzieHibbert
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
Utter bull****.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
So?
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
Not necessarily.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
Not necessarily.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
You sure about that?
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
Err, no?
Original post by LizzieHibbert
I'm 15, I go to one of the biggest coeducational comprehensive schools in the UK and I'm predicted 8 A*s and 2 As in my GCSEs. My brother is 18 and has been made a conditional offer to study for an MPhys at Durham University.
My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
There were a number of reasons for this.
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
There were a number of reasons for this.
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
Did you consider state grammar schools in your area (AGGS)?
It is obvious that private is GERNERALLY better than state, but I don't think state school should be discredited, there are still many fine state schools, some show better potential at private school, whilst for some state is a better option. I was educated at at private school all my life and when I moved to france at 13 to a small village secondary school, I was told I had serious gaps in my education. Despite being top of the class at one of the best private schools in my area.
(edited 13 years ago)
AESG? No way, I went there for my last year of high school.
I've been to both state and private, and my findings are:
Private school = cosy little rose-tinted bubble where everything is peachy and you get to put off experiencing the real world for five more years, working hard is actively encouraged and doing well doesn't get you sneered at. Grades are typically higher, students are more... well, studious, and a lot more focus is placed on academics.
State school = pretty much the real world, far more diverse ethnically, depending on how bad your school is you can get bullied if you are pretty academic, there are no rose-tinted specs here, and if you want to do well, it's not as easily handed to you on a platter. There's a bit more of a "I don't really care" attitude here, but there's no way near the level of elitism you'll find at a private schol (obviously.) It's a lot more down-to-earth. If you want to do well, it's all up to you.
When I made the change, my first thought toward the students of the private school were "...are these guys for real?"
I've been to both state and private, and my findings are:
Private school = cosy little rose-tinted bubble where everything is peachy and you get to put off experiencing the real world for five more years, working hard is actively encouraged and doing well doesn't get you sneered at. Grades are typically higher, students are more... well, studious, and a lot more focus is placed on academics.
State school = pretty much the real world, far more diverse ethnically, depending on how bad your school is you can get bullied if you are pretty academic, there are no rose-tinted specs here, and if you want to do well, it's not as easily handed to you on a platter. There's a bit more of a "I don't really care" attitude here, but there's no way near the level of elitism you'll find at a private schol (obviously.) It's a lot more down-to-earth. If you want to do well, it's all up to you.
When I made the change, my first thought toward the students of the private school were "...are these guys for real?"
I go state school.
What you said doesn't really apply (the stuff about teachers saying intellectual ability does not make them better you others; they tell us the world is for the smart and studious).
What you said about 'A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.'
Don't know about class but seeing stupid kids throw their lives away makes me angry, especially if they have brains to begin with.
Although, education wise, I find state schools more suited to me personally, having attended private and found it crap.
At private school, they had me nervous and pressured. Now, I can sleep in class and know I'll still come out with 4 A's.
What you said doesn't really apply (the stuff about teachers saying intellectual ability does not make them better you others; they tell us the world is for the smart and studious).
What you said about 'A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.'
Don't know about class but seeing stupid kids throw their lives away makes me angry, especially if they have brains to begin with.
Although, education wise, I find state schools more suited to me personally, having attended private and found it crap.
At private school, they had me nervous and pressured. Now, I can sleep in class and know I'll still come out with 4 A's.
Original post by im so academic
Utter bull****.
Not really. While they don't really actively promote it, just the fact that they are so much more diverse than private schools kind of does the job itself. You're around so many different people of different cultures, it naturally happens, I guess.
So?
So most people like to live in the real world?
Not necessarily.
Class does, intellectual ability does not.
Not necessarily.
You're right with that point.
You sure about that?
It's true. HELL of a lot more pressure on applying to top universities because they want to look after their statistics.
Err, no?
Not really. While they don't really actively promote it, just the fact that they are so much more diverse than private schools kind of does the job itself. You're around so many different people of different cultures, it naturally happens, I guess.
So?
So most people like to live in the real world?
Not necessarily.
Class does, intellectual ability does not.
Not necessarily.
You're right with that point.
You sure about that?
It's true. HELL of a lot more pressure on applying to top universities because they want to look after their statistics.
Err, no?
Yeah, actually. "Taught they are elite" might be a bit strong, though. But there's a definite promotion of intelligence of which there is a lack in comps.
Oops, ballsed up the set out.
Anyway, my replies are in the "quote" bit, haha.
To a tee, Both schools are the same. Private or grammar school children should not be treated any different. I am actually only in year 7 but i previously sat a grammar school exam.I am more into the arts and the test concerntrated on verbal and non verbal reasoning. This i can do, but when i got to the maths, I tensed up. I have a maths tutor, And go to comprehensive school. I am in set 1 for english and set 2 for maths. My aim is to go to set 1 for maths. . Private schools push and push until you get to the top. My mums friends daughter goes to private school and is in year 9. She says i made the right decision not going, Because there is rivalry between students and get 3 hours homework a night and as i said before, They push you until you get to the top. It is soley up to the effort you put in. If your parents pay for you to go to private school and you flunk off everyday, Then you are not getting a good education. If you go to a comprehensive and work hard then you will get a good education. With the current credit crunc, Most parents can not afford to send kids to private school, But they do not have to, It is about how much effort you put in. Im am all forcomprehensive schools. And by the way, I do not normally sound this posh
(edited 13 years ago)
i dont like how state schools are generalised into the fact that you get sneered at if you are ambitious and either enjoy school/are good at something. i go to a state school where academic/musical ability is strived for, you are never made fun of if you enjoy a subject or do extra work at break/lunch, and some of the most popular people are the smartest in the year. so yeah, if you cared enough about not being sneered at, you'd do your research and find a school like mine with good quality teaching but without the price tag.
i'm not saying anything bad about private schools, before anyone shouts at me.
i'm not saying anything bad about private schools, before anyone shouts at me.
Your a mug If you think all private schools are attended by Brits only. I guarantee you my Independent school is as multi-cultural as it gets, 3/4 of all the Boarding students are foreign. Out of my maths class of 10 last year only 2 were white, and one was Austrian, and in my current Politics class we have 8 people of 8 different nationalities.
Put it this way, The UK is 87% "White British" but at a rough guess I would say my school was only around 60% "white" and barely 40% British, and around half the school are boarders of which most live outside the UK.
The great thing is I have also got to meet people from countries I have never even heard of before and would probably never have if it weren't for them being at my school eg, Tajikistan and Abkhazia.
Anywho, rant over.
Happy Christmas
Put it this way, The UK is 87% "White British" but at a rough guess I would say my school was only around 60% "white" and barely 40% British, and around half the school are boarders of which most live outside the UK.
The great thing is I have also got to meet people from countries I have never even heard of before and would probably never have if it weren't for them being at my school eg, Tajikistan and Abkhazia.
Anywho, rant over.
Happy Christmas
Independent schools in the UK vary a lot. Some like Manchester Grammar School are highly selective on academic ability and within that try to take children irrespective of their parents ability to pay. Others definitely have an agenda of social rather than academic elitism. Some are just fairly average schools but with small class sizes and less overworked teachers. Given the parents can afford the fees or the child can win a scholarship the decision as to if it is best for the child depends greatly on the child's personality. Some children definitely do better at singles sex schools others not, some really do better in small classes where they are are given more attention. Others do as well or better at a state school as they would at an independent one. I personally know examples of all such cases.
There are no general rules. You have to look at each case on its merits. One thing I am fairly sure of is that if state school funding was increased, class sizes halved and teachers less stressed state education would greatly improve.
There are no general rules. You have to look at each case on its merits. One thing I am fairly sure of is that if state school funding was increased, class sizes halved and teachers less stressed state education would greatly improve.
I went to a private school and I reckon if you had actually found out more about them you would have wanted to go to one too.
What you have described tbh is pure fiction, I doubt even Eton is like that.
What you have described tbh is pure fiction, I doubt even Eton is like that.
Original post by LizzieHibbert
I'm 15, I go to one of the biggest coeducational comprehensive schools in the UK and I'm predicted 8 A*s and 2 As in my GCSEs. My brother is 18 and has been made a conditional offer to study for an MPhys at Durham University.
My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
There were a number of reasons for this.
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
There were a number of reasons for this.
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
well i go to a normal grammar school and predicted 7a* rest A, and i hardly revise
Original post by laurie:)
i dont like how state schools are generalised into the fact that you get sneered at if you are ambitious and either enjoy school/are good at something. i go to a state school where academic/musical ability is strived for, you are never made fun of if you enjoy a subject or do extra work at break/lunch, and some of the most popular people are the smartest in the year. so yeah, if you cared enough about not being sneered at, you'd do your research and find a school like mine with good quality teaching but without the price tag.
i'm not saying anything bad about private schools, before anyone shouts at me.
i'm not saying anything bad about private schools, before anyone shouts at me.
Of course, there are disparities within the state school sector. I presume you go to a top state school?
Original post by dnumberwang
Did you consider state grammar schools in your area (AGGS)?
I go to AGGS
and have found it to be an excellent school (which I presume is your point!)Quick Reply
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