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Beating a human up VS beating up a non-human animal

TSR George

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Reply 1

Charzhino

because humans have souls.. :s-smilie:

Reply 2

A Cat

sure I'd beat up a chicken, but that's only because it wouldn't hit me back

Reply 3

Steevee

Honestly? The differences can seem arbritrary at times, but for some reason it's rather taboo to eat other people.

I would say simply, that animals are not human. A rather redundant statement, but there you have it. That's the divide. Plus, to my mind animals lack the sapiance/Sentience of Human kind. They are not self aware and cannot think on a plane higher than that of instinctual behaviour.

Does this mean I should be alright with the maltreatment of retarded humans? I don't think so, for a few reasons, one although I like to eat animals, I don't believe they should be harmed, overly in he farming process. That said, the mental capacity o a chicken is somewhat, limited so I'm not too worried. I know that makes me seem cold, but really, I care not. But also, by virtue of species the retarded human is still human, and we feel compelled to uphold the social norms, despite the fact that person does not, or lacks the capacity to.

Society tells us it is wrong to treat the different differently, and so, we have been conditioned to say that person should be treated as any other, despite their deficencies.

Oops, not sure I really answered the question. One shiould not beat a chicken, neither should one beat a retarded person. But it's alright to beat mentally stable people who are jackasses :smile:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 4

TheSadReaper

hmm a tough one, your post was like an essay and a bit long winded.

But I would have neither the chickens killed nor the human, I'd rather they both stay happy and well.

Reply 5

The Smeezington

Humans are the dominant race, we value ourselves over any other living thing. That's why if you kill an animal for dumb reasons it's okay but if you kill a member of our dominant race then you then you are punished.
That's just how life works I'm afraid. Survival of the fittest. Only care for you own.

Reply 6

Gavzzz

Speciesm! Now that's going a bit far.

Reply 7

Steevee

Ok, I'm sorry.

I don't see speciesism as a problem, there are clear differences between myself and a chicken, to pretend otherwise is frankly ridiculous.

By too much I meant unssecsary. Free range farming is viable, so should be done, although it shouldn't be mandatory. I think the regulations on animal cuelty should be a bit tighter, that said inevitabley farmed animals will not have the perfect life, and to try and strve for that is to end dissapointed.

Reply 8

Gavzzz

I get the feeling that you feel that animals and humans are equal and should have equal rights.

I do however admit that animals do get treated badly by some methods of farming which is wrong, but if the need was not there then it would not be done would it.

Reply 9

OMGWTFBBQ

My argument would be;

The usual intellect of a chicken is very low.
The usual intellect of a human is somewhat higher.

The retarded human has an intellect which is, for the sake of argument, that of a chicken. However, humans are more intelligent in the general case.

Similarly, you could take an intelligent chicken. Again, for the sake of argument, ignore the fact that you're never going to get a chicken of a similar intelligence to even the dumbest of humans.

This one intelligent chicken would not mean that the general case chicken should not be eaten. Also, the one retarded human would not mean that the general case human should be eaten.

You may not agree - in fact I suspect that you won't. But that's the logic.

Reply 10

Gavzzz

Yes, there is the demand and the farmers provide the supply in the only way that they can. It is unfortunate that it has to be through the use of battery farming but that isn't going to make many people give up eating meat.

Reply 11

nazirard

First off:
WTF! Beating up non-human animals. So there are human animals?!

Spoiler

I think animals would have sufficed OP. We can make the link. :wink:

But I do think the way animals are treated is very disrespectful. Even branding cows, something that is probably still common and still most of us don't see it as a horrible painful experience. I guess it's to do with our socialisation as well.

Reply 12

Steevee

The differences are much vaster. It comes down to superority and nature.

If you say we are al animals and all equal, then nature tells us the strong prey on the weak. If we are superior to the animals then we should have no qualms about taking what we need. It is up to you I suppose, but I don't see it as a moral issue so long as we do not harm the animals in unssecsary ways.

Reply 13

Gavzzz

I am not disputing that a lot of cruelty occurs in farming, I am saying that as we have evolved as omnivores. Meat is what the majority of people eat and that isn't going to change very soon if ever. The demand for meat means we need to use these farming methods and unfortunately most people are not going to be overly troubled by it.

Basically, this is the world we live in so either go on some campaign to make everyone vegans or learn to live with it.

Reply 14

OMGWTFBBQ

First, humans are more intelligent than chickens. That isn't unfounded. That's true.

You will never find a human which is less intelligent than a chicken - even the most severely ******ed. To save us discussing euthanasia, ignore the brain-dead.

Second, there are no marginal cases. That there is a sliding scale, rather than a black-and-white filter, does not follow. Humans are more intelligent than all other animals by a long shot.

By intelligence, I mean a developed language, social structure, use of tools and technology. Yes, I accept that chimps are more developed along these lines than, say, chickens. But compared to us they are nowhere close. It is not unreasonable to claim that these have no notable intelligence.

Your post would have weight if we ever discovered an animal/alien with intelligence (a developed language and manufactured tools for example). There are no animals close to this at the moment, however.

As for making generalisations, you can't make an argument based on (fictional) extreme cases. When discussing the deaths of so many billions of animals, one must speak in a general way.

Reply 15

Kaykiie

Do all your threads involve making meat eaters feel bad?

You try to force your beliefs on others all the bloody time in any thread vaguely related to vegetarianism, veganism or animal rights.

Go away and eat leaves in silence.

Reply 16

Gavzzz

Can not be bothered any more you are obviously not someone who listens. I am saying that this the world we live in, yes its not perfect, so do something something about it!

Reply 17

Kaykiie

Oh don't try to deny it. You've tried to make me convert to veganism a ton of times.

Just accept that not everybody wants to eat plants to survive. You can eat what you like, let us eat what we like in peace.

Reply 18

Kaykiie

Well actually yes, you feel the need to wade into other threads with your unwanted 'tripe' so I decided to do the same in this one.

I don't feel guilty, if I did then I'd surely stop eating meat and dairy products, wouldn't I?

Have you even met yourself? All you do is try to make people feel bad for not being vegan. When people tell you that they try to eat free range and try to use products that haven't been the result of animal harm you tell them that that isn't good enough.

I'm not trolling, you know that. I'm simply disagreeing with all your self righteousness on the matter at hand. Don't flatter yourself, if this thread hadn't appeared in the discussions I wouldn't have commented.

Reply 19

luuucyx

either way its wrong, neither can really speak for themselves. if you see how battery farmed chickens are if they ever get released its horrible, theyre acid burnt and have no feathers from stress plucking themselves
but i like animals
if someone pissed me off id beat them up,
i think this was more about the point of the treatment? eating animals isnt reaallyyy justified but then again animals eat other animals.. humans attacking other humans..naah, not right