Open University

Milton Keynes

Why are the modules different at Open University?

Modules for the Econ w/ math degree at Open University are:

Using mathematics (MST121)
Introducing the social sciences (DD101)
You and your money: personal finance in context (DB123)
Analysing data (M248)

Modules of Econ w/ math at the University of London External are:

02 Introduction to economics
04a Statistics 1
05a Mathematics 1
65 Macroeconomics (02+05a)
66 Microeconomics (02+05a)
117 Advanced calculus

It seems there's a world of difference between these two degrees based on the modules. UoL modules are a lot more traditional and in line with what major universities study. So why does Open University only do these modules and does this reflect on the quality of the degree?

Thank you

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Reply 1

SunburnedCactus

The module names don't always reflect the course content, but they should cover everything required to make up a complete degree.

Open University

Milton Keynes

Reply 2

Moggs

Original post by Jas0nP

Modules for the Econ w/ math degree at Open University are:

The OU modules you've listed only make up 150 points, so pretty much the first year. Are those the first year UoL modules, or the whole degree? If they're the whole degree, that would explain why some things seem missing from the OU list.

Reply 3

James Gregory

I don't know why I keep saying this when it's not what people want to hear, but OU level 1 modules are generally at or below the standard of A-level, and level 2 modules are more like the 1st year of most university courses. Note though that the requirements at the OU generally allow you to only do about 60 credits at level 1, and then take more courses at levels 2 and 3, if you wish to make life harder for yourself.

I can confidently say MST121 is easier than A-level maths (having taken it myself), that DB123 looks more like GCSE standard, and that the taster material for M248 looks suspiciously similar to A-level stats, even though it's a level 2 course.

But it depends on what you are taking the courses for, on how much study you have already done in the past (e.g. do you have an A-level or equivalent in maths already), and on which courses you choose to study. I am just choosing OU modules that look to be an appropriate level for myself without trying to meet the requirements for an actual degree (I already have one from elsewhere).

Reply 4

Moggs

Original post by James Gregory

I don't know why I keep saying this when it's not what people want to hear

There are without a doubt easier and more difficult routes to the same qualification. There is the option for maths to begin at MU123 or to only credit L3's and postgrads towards a maths degree. Personally, I don't find what you said offensive in the slightest. I might be a bit biased though as I'm doing mine for interest rather than to compete for a 'J' word (self employed).

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 5

morecambebay

That list is clearly incomplete.

Reply 6

AnnB

If you look at the courses necessary for the economics with maths degree you will find that the minimum number of modules needed for this degree is 8 but could be as many as 10 depending on your choices. You only mention 4 of them so are not comparing like with like. :confused:

Reply 7

HLS

Original post by James Gregory

If I may make a few observations.

In order to retain degree-awarding powers, HE providers must meet the academic standards benchmarks which are formulated and regulated by the Quality Assurance Agency through their Framework for Higher Education Qualifications.

OU levels 1/2/3 meet the academic descriptors for FHEQ levels 4/5/6 respectively, and thus the ultimate academic outcome is comparable with any other Honours degree.

However, I agree that some of the entry level modules are at or below A Level. That said, I have also studied at a 'red brick' University (a Maths-based degree), and the entire first year of mathematics content was of a much lower academic level than even A Level Maths (which I have also done). With this in mind, the 'overlap' between A Level and Degree Level is actually nothing unusual and is certainly not a phenomenon unique to the Open University.

However, the Open University's Mathematics-based modules (like so many others), whilst overlapping with A Level content at Level 1 and (in some cases) level 2, do start to 'take off' at level 3.

This was also true of my Red Brick University - the intellectual intensity took on exponential levels of growth in the final year.

The 'best' Universities (by which I mean, those with the most demanding entrance requirements - i.e. Oxbridge) will stretch out the truly taxing stuff over the full three years, but (in my opinion) the ultimate intellectual intensity is no greater.

The benefit of Oxbridge/the RG over somewhere like the OU is that you effectively have a head start and much longer to absorb the tough stuff.

The benefit of the OU and similar such Universities - with a true 'widening access' agenda - is that they are able to take somebody relatively inexperienced in a given field, and slowly bring them up to Honours Level over the period of their studies.

It's horses for courses. Inevitably somebody with prior successful periods of study (such as good A Levels) will find elements of the OU frustrating - but then, the named degrees have not really been optimised for already well educated people, but instead for people with no prior qualifications.

Rest assured the final learning outcomes are comparable with other institutions.

Reply 8

hmm_what?

Original post by James Gregory

I can confidently say MST121 is easier than A-level maths (having taken it myself)

If you've done A-Level maths prior to MST121 then there's a reason MST121 seems easier :wink:

Not only that but the MST121/MS221 combination is a more accurate representation of A-Level-ish maths. I say A-Level-ish because it's possible to get A-Level maths without encountering many of the things in MST121/MS221 but there are somethings covered in A-Level further Pure Maths that's not covered in either OU module.

Reply 9

DopplerEffect

Original post by Jas0nP

Maybe you will get the other courses at a later level??

Reply 10

Juno

Original post by hmm_what?

If you've done A-Level maths prior to MST121 then there's a reason MST121 seems easier :wink:

Not only that but the MST121/MS221 combination is a more accurate representation of A-Level-ish maths. I say A-Level-ish because it's possible to get A-Level maths without encountering many of the things in MST121/MS221 but there are some things covered in A-Level further Pure Maths that's not covered in either OU module.

Original post by James Gregory

I can confidently say MST121 is easier than A-level maths (having taken it myself)

I have posted a comparison of A Level maths and MST121 before, and it's not true to say that MST121 is "easier".

Reply 11

Jas0nP

Original post by AnnB

I only selected a handful of courses from UoL also. It was just for example. The same holds true for the level 3 courses as they are different again.

Reply 12

HLS

Original post by Jas0nP

I only selected a handful of courses from UoL also. It was just for example. The same holds true for the level 3 courses as they are different again.

Of course they're different - in much the same way as module descriptors for ordinary Universities teaching the same subject differ substantially.

What, exactly, is your point?

Reply 13

morecambebay

Thanks for the neg rep, I just have one question for you:

Is the university of london one even an honours degree? They seem very coy about that information.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 14

Jas0nP

Original post by HLS

Of course they're different - in much the same way as module descriptors for ordinary Universities teaching the same subject differ substantially.

What, exactly, is your point?

From searching around it seems course titles really don't change that much from ordinary universities. Just doing a quick search of Manchester, Durham, Oxford all the degrees have these modules of microecon macroecon and advanced maths in common. They also have in common that these courses make up the bulk of study. These modules are also the same as the ones listed for UoL while reading Open Uni's modules are vastly different.

I don't have a point, the thread was to ask why? I think most people would wager a guess that they seem easier options to make the degree easier but if that isn't the case i'd love to know. I'm interested in hearing from people who have done these modules and compared them to other people studying Econ at a red brick.

I hope that open university modules are the exact same but with different titles as i'd much rather study there than UoL given the reviews of both but I wouldn't want to study there if the modules are soft modules and employers know as much.

Reply 15

infernalcradle

the only difference is the name...

the content itself should be fairly identical, otherwise it wouldn't be a maths degree

Reply 16

Jas0nP

Original post by morecambebay

Thanks for the neg rep, I just have one question for you:

Is the university of london one even an honours degree? They seem very coy about that information.

It is. From the prospective:

Classification
Degrees are awarded with the following
classifications: First Class Honours,
Second Class Honours (divided into
Upper Division and Lower Division),
Third Class Honours and Pass.

Reply 17

James Gregory

The UoL course looks harder - unless you purposefully chose a load of higher level maths modules at the OU, beyond the requirements.

It also looks like the maths and economics sides of the course are well integrated at the UoL, whilst at the OU maths and economics are entirely separated. For instance MST209 teaches about PDEs and advanced-ish calculus within the context of Newtonian mechanics, and the OU statistics courses talk a great deal about medical statistics, animal populations and such like. The OU's main level 3 economics course (dd309) doesn't seem to have any mathematical pre-requisites at all.

Then again, the OU materials are very well designed and well written for use in self study, they have a lot of experience of providing distance study courses, and there is a lot of support both from tutors (at tutorials which would be about twice a month for full time study, and via phone/email) and from fellow pupils (via busy internet forums). To a certain extent it sounds like the UoL just throw textbooks at you and expect you to get on with it, which could be tough and lonely (though I don't know having not studied there). Plus at the OU you have a qualification with every module you pass, should you decide to go back to full time work, or to move to a different university. It looks like the UoL gives you nothing until you finish the whole course.

Reply 18

HLS

Original post by Jas0nP

Academic standards are regularly audited by the QAA, as I outlined in my previous post. This is necessary to retain the right to confer the award of a degree (or any other HE qualification).

Every University in England, Wales and Northern Ireland must meet the descriptors for relevant FHEQ levels in order to be able to award a degree. However, within that framework there is a lot of leeway for exactly what a University institution wishes to teach a student. Regardless, a Bachelors degree with Honours has to represent a threshold of intellectual and academic intensity in order to meet the government's Quality Assurance standards.

The things you need to consider are that the OU are perhaps the only such University that have 60 credit modules - even at a 'proper' University, the biggest module I was ever asked to tackle was 20 credits and even a dissertation was only worth 40. 60 credit modules just didn't (and don't) exist there. To my knowledge, UoL External Programme don't have them either.

The module descriptions supplied online are a little misleading as they do not really give an impression of the magnitude of work involved.

OU Graduates are accepted in to the Civil Service, Law, Banking. Many have gone on to become Doctors, managers etc. Oxford and Cambridge have accepted (and continue to accept) OU graduates to post-graduate programmes of study and research, and both accept OU modules as the basis for entry to undergraduate programmes. If there were any concerns about the degree being 'easy', such scrupulous employers would not be quite so willing to snap up OU graduates.

The OU, like any other University, gives you as much as you are willing to put in. Perhaps there is a particular prestige in the UoL programmes - especially those administered by the LSE - but the UoL programmes are also prodigiously expensive, have fixed entry requirements and far less robust support mechanisms available.

Personally, I'd take the OU any day. When I finish my OU degree I fully intend to continue studying with them, as the sheer variety of modules on offer is unlikely ever to exhaust my intellectual curiosity.

Reply 19

Moggs

Curiosity got the better of me, and I went and had a look to see if there were similar OU modules to the UoL ones you listed above. Here's some that I found, though I haven't fitted them in to any study plan as such, so this is just to point out their availability more than anything :smile:

Here's your micro/macro overview course.
http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/dd202.htm

This seems to be a micro course ending in a project and specialism.
http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/dd309.htm

Investment, ethics and risk management.
http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/db234.htm

This one you already mentioned, seems to be statistics.
http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/m248.htm

Along with the higher level statistics.
http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/m346.htm

There are some L3 calc and stats courses that I haven't listed, but the modules above are looking pretty close the UoL selection :smile:

I'm sure there are more too, but I'm short on time. It might be worth digging deeper in to the list of economics degrees and the modules you can put towards them. It seems that there is far greater depth there than is suggested by the quick overview on the OU econ faculty site.