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Shortest Medical specialty?

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Original post by Chwirkytheappleboy
What happens if you opt out of the EWTD?


Is it legal to voluntarily opt out of a civil liberty?
Original post by winter_mute
Is it legal to voluntarily opt out of a civil liberty?


Yes. See the "Opting out of the 48 hour week" section in the Working Time Limits Regulations
Reply 42
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Krov
10
Dropoutology is the shortest path I know of.
OP you mean if we get to consultant level - it's by no means a cert nowadays - especially if we don't cut down on numbers intake wise...
Reply 44
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Organ
13
Original post by Philosoraptor
OP you mean if we get to consultant level - it's by no means a cert nowadays - especially if we don't cut down on numbers intake wise...


What is the long-term prospects? Loads of ST7s or the creation of a sub consultant grade?

Gov. could just spend some more money and bring our number of doctors up to the euro level :colone:
Reply 45
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Helenia
20
Original post by Beska
Thanks for the heads up.

There's a more updated banding scale page here but it's not labelled very well and I don't really understand it. Are the three different basic pays for F1/F2 for the three different bands?


Tbh, I'm not sure myself. For F1 and F2 at least, the lowest of those sets of numbers is the basic pay rate, but the others are not the banded salaries - 1A banding brings the F1 salary up to ~£33k outside London, so I don't know what those numbers are.

Chwirkytheappleboy
What happens if you opt out of the EWTD?

It's complicated. NHS trusts are not allowed to force you to opt out of the EWTD, therefore all their normal rotas have to be compliant as there will be some people on there who have not opted out. What it does mean if you opt out is that you can locum at your own trust to fill in any rota gaps/sickness etc they may have, for which they will pay you extra, but it would be as separate locum pay, rather than simply increasing your banding.

I would wait until you're actually working before you decide about opting out though - I'm on a compliant rota and it's absolutely killing me!
Original post by Helenia

I would wait until you're actually working before you decide about opting out though - I'm on a compliant rota and it's absolutely killing me!


If you do opt out, can you turn down any locum rotas?

Also do the wage rates apply evenly trough out England, Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland?
Reply 47
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Renal
17
Original post by Helenia
band 2 jobs are now illegal so the highest banding anyone should be on is 1A.
Payroll at my work are well aware that band 2s are illegal, shame the boss who does my rota isn't...
Reply 48
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Renal
17
Original post by Beska
Thanks for the heads up.

There's a more updated banding scale page here but it's not labelled very well and I don't really understand it. Are the three different basic pays for F1/F2 for the three different bands?
Every year within a pay band (i.e. FY1) you're pay will go up. This applies more to nursing and the other AHPs where people remain in the same pay band for many years (so a new staff nurse will start on Band 4 Year 1 and then go to Band 4 Year 2 and so on until they gain promotion to SSN and go up (or down) to Band 5 Year 1).

So, in your first year as an FY1 you get the first line salary, in your second year at FY1 (if you have to) you would get the salary on the second line.
Reply 49
Avatar for Renal
Renal
17
Original post by Helenia
I would wait until you're actually working before you decide about opting out though - I'm on a compliant rota and it's absolutely killing me!
I'm on a non-compliant 1A which is murder but it ends in Feb and I go to a 1B with no nights, lates or weekends! :biggrin:
Reply 50
Avatar for Beska
Beska
21
Original post by Renal
Every year within a pay band (i.e. FY1) you're pay will go up. This applies more to nursing and the other AHPs where people remain in the same pay band for many years (so a new staff nurse will start on Band 4 Year 1 and then go to Band 4 Year 2 and so on until they gain promotion to SSN and go up (or down) to Band 5 Year 1).

So, in your first year as an FY1 you get the first line salary, in your second year at FY1 (if you have to) you would get the salary on the second line.


I assume you'd remain at F1 if you failed the conditions for successful completion, or something along those lines?
Reply 51
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Renal
17
Original post by Beska
I assume you'd remain at F1 if you failed the conditions for successful completion, or something along those lines?
Essentially yes.
Reply 52
Avatar for Helenia
Helenia
20
Original post by winter_mute
If you do opt out, can you turn down any locum rotas?

Also do the wage rates apply evenly trough out England, Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland?


Why would you opt out if you didn't want to do locum shifts? Or do you mean can you turn down certain ones if you don't want to do them - in which case, yes you can.

Obviously nowhere except London gets an extra supplement, but I believe the wages are the same everywhere.

Renal
I'm on a non-compliant 1A which is murder but it ends in Feb and I go to a 1B with no nights, lates or weekends!

I have no idea if mine is compliant or not because it's too complicated to calculate, but I assume it is because I've not heard anything after our recent monitoring. Only 22 more shifts until I move into GPland though! I expect I will die of boredom within a month but having a life will make for a refreshing change...
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Helenia
Why would you opt out if you didn't want to do locum shifts? Or do you mean can you turn down certain ones if you don't want to do them - in which case, yes you can.

Obviously nowhere except London gets an extra supplement, but I believe the wages are the same everywhere.


Wales aren't implementing the wage freeze for the time being so slightly higher wages there (along with free accommodation).
Original post by Helenia
Why would you opt out if you didn't want to do locum shifts? Or do you mean can you turn down certain ones if you don't want to do them - in which case, yes you can.


I meant the latter, would really suck if you couldn't turn down a locum shift on Christmas day!
Reply 55
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Sambo2
10
Original post by infernalcradle
they are all the same.....

as regardless of how long the official training takes, you will still have to be learning about the new discoveries etc. in your field, keeping up with latest news, etc. etc.

so in that sense every single one requires a career long commitment


that's the interview answer...
Original post by Sambo2
that's the interview answer...


really??

I genuinely believe that and wrote it honestly....
Original post by Chwirkytheappleboy
What happens if you opt out of the EWTD?


as a Foundation Doctor you couldn't because you cannot practice outside your approved posts ...

ST/ CT doctors would end up doing locums probably
Original post by Blatant Troll
To be fair, they only earn megabucks because of the high cost of training over there combined with filthy malpractice insurance. That's not to say they're not comfortable, but not as well off as people think they are.

Interesting question re. quality of training. A Texan friend of mine [anecdotal, oui, but I doubt he is alone in his preconceptions] seems to think training is comparatively lacklustre here, for whatever reason (as well as the NHS at large, but that's a whole different kettle of fish!)

:holmes:


The trouble with a lot of Americans is, even if it doesn't seem like it, they have been brought up with the notion that America is the best country in the world. The American system may be better, I don't know, but I'd take any opinion with a pinch of salt. Bare in mind, the most popular news network in the country regularly claims Britain is a communist state because of the NHS...
Original post by Renal
Every year within a pay band (i.e. FY1) you're pay will go up. This applies more to nursing and the other AHPs where people remain in the same pay band for many years (so a new staff nurse will start on Band 4 Year 1 and then go to Band 4 Year 2 and so on until they gain promotion to SSN and go up (or down) to Band 5 Year 1).

So, in your first year as an FY1 you get the first line salary, in your second year at FY1 (if you have to) you would get the salary on the second line.



right idea except Nurses ( and madwives and the HPC professions) have a minimum banding of 5 under Agenda For Change ,

Band 4 is for ambulance techs in several services and assistant practitioners from a clinical staff point of view.

moving between AfC bands you go across and up if your are in the 'overlapping' incremental points and if you are below the bottom incremental point for your new band to the bottom point ...

this leads to the situation where it often doesn't pay to move to band 6 as anything you gain in basic wages will be offset by fewer unsociable hours - this is mainly for ward nurses , in critical care and ED where you have Sister / Charge Nurse cover 24/7 and ENPs 14 - 24 hours a day it is less noticeable

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