The Daily Telegraph: Muslim population has grown from 1.65m to 2.87m in a decade

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That's because your ordinary Muslim who executes a homosexual would be commiting murder. It's the Islaamic state that does this after a guilty verdict is concluded.The most important aspect, I feel, is the question of how homosexuality is determined in an Islaamic state?

even in the islamic states (of which there are about 2 at most) their respective governments are anti-homosexual. For example in Iran, whilst many of its people have the desire to be secular, tolerant and moderate, the face of its government is that of a ruthless dictator who listens to whatever the ayotollahs say. Yet, when we think of Iran, we do not think of the secular majority who have no feelings toward homosexuals, but rather the government who despise them. How 'homosexuality' is judged is very much the secret police, government informants etc. very orwellian..

surprisingly, in many middle eastern countries homosexuality is more common than you would think- it is just kept secret. The same happens in India too.

Reply 141

Hamesh

Original post by Phantom_X

Sorry but that does not make any sense, if in Islaam, adultery requires the burden of proof on the accuser i.e. 4 witnesses, then why does homosexuality simply require indictment if both are penalised by death?

Reply 142

Phantom_X

Original post by Hamesh

well, this is what I have read in books and newspapers. as for the judicial system, youd have to ask someone more knowledgeable in the shariah.

Reply 143

Kolya

Original post by tieyourmotherdown

There's nothing immediately wrong with it growing, but the long term problems are that Muslims tend to hold very conservative views on social issues and in particular, homosexuality. The UK has become an incredibly tolerant country socially over the past decade, but an increase in Islamic beliefs will inevitably lead to more homophobia, and quite possibly more violence.

It wouldn't be so bad if British Muslims were more adjusted to our culture, like they are on the continent (German and French muslims were significantly more liberal on homosexuality, abortion and divorce when compared to British muslims), but the trouble is that they're not, and when the muslim population grows at such a high rate, that does pose a problem.

There's nothing wrong with having more muslims, but there is something wrong with the consequences it may have if they don't adjust to our culture.

Perhaps that problem can be addressed though, and in doing so we might be able to achieve other goals. If we are able to bring up a generation of SE Asians and Arabs who have experience of prosperity, and who tend towards more liberal social views (be it through liberal Islam or atheism) then that can be an encouragement for people of the same ethnicity to adopt similar views. By inviting people from other countries in, and helping them prosper in an open society with liberal social and economic policies, we can demonstrate that liberal democracy is for everyone. If we shut them out, then it helps reinforce ideas that liberal democracy is only for white Western Europe. In the long run, that makes us less secure than we are now: if we deal with minor internal worries now then we can help prevent potentially serious external worries caused by unstable nations in the future.

Reply 144

Barksy

Original post by llpokermuffinll

Are you f*****g retarded or soemthing? Ever considered that the World Population also grew by 1 Billion as well?

That clearly shows that Islam is the religion to rule the world and the TRUE religion on Earth.

Are you ****ing retarded? If you think that a religion that promotes stonings, abuse and murder is a 'TRUE religion' you're scum. Appreciate what you've been given in this country and the West; we've provided a life more enjoyable than that of a poor soul in the desert being ruled by a sadistic Islamic state. As I said, scum.

Reply 145

MovingOn

Original post by Left Hand Drive

Ok the EDL will use this as propaganda for muslim taking over! Then you inform them that they make up 3% of the UK and they shut up

Agree with this, even with the growth the Muslim population is still tiny.

Reply 146

DirtyPrettyThing

Original post by Barksy

Would rep this if I could. Although you're a little offensive in your post, he was over-offensive unnecessarily to the OP before you, so fair do's.

The idea of it being the TRUE religion because it's grown a lot in the UK is laughable.

I'm sick of being called a kaffir, infidel on these forums. I can't help being an infidel, I'd be a muslim if somebody could present valid evidence that it was fact, but so far nobody has. And blind faith is damned dangerous, it's what made the 9/11 hijackers so sure they were doing the right thing. Maybe if they were rational and logical they'd think twice about their beliefs.

I've got no problem with you peaceful muslims out there but you must admit that your blind faith is a cushion for extremism to thrive.

Reply 147

llpokermuffinll

Original post by Barksy

Bruv that is not my Islam. My Islam is different. That is the Islam that idiots follow.

They are the ones who misinterpret things. My Islam is not like that and a truly peaceful community.

And how does Islam promote abuse and murder? It happens in f*ked up countries where they misinterpret the Islam.

People are even saying that Terrorism is right in Islam. WTF? That is all misinterpretations of idiots!

The true followers of Islam would never do any of these.

We (my community in Islam) don't take everything literally from the Qur'an, but rather use our brains and interpret it in the right way. If Islam by definition (you can't argue about this) means Peace (look it up on wikipedia or anywhere), then how can Islam be promoting stoning to rape victims and other s*** like that? That's why we interpret it in the correct way.

Like apostates. The Qur'an doesn't say anywhere that apostates have to be killed and all. It is them idiots who interpret it the wrong way.

The true reason was that at the time of Muhammad (saw) a group of Muslims left the religion and started attacking Islam. in THAT case Islam has to be defended, which would have to be by killing them.

This however is not the case any more because Islam is not in danger of extinction, which it was at that time.

Trust me. The true Islam is not like the IDIOTIC Muslims are spreading. The true Islam is indeed a peaceful religion.

Looking forward for a reply.

PEACE

EDIT - And if Islam is not peaceful, I wouldn't understand how it can be the fastest growing religion.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 148

Margaret Thatcher

Original post by llpokermuffinll

EDIT - And if Islam is not peaceful, I wouldn't understand how it can be the fastest growing religion.

You do realise Hitler could have said something like this when the National Socialist Party grew heavily in popularity in Germany?

Just because something gains followers (through a large birth-rate or otherwise) does not mean it's automatically peaceful.

Reply 149

Barksy

It's grown because, to put it bluntly, Muslims reproduce more than a Christian couple because of the religion. I appreciate you're a peaceful Muslim, but the religion doesn't have a very good place in a liberal Western society.

Reply 150

bunty64

Original post by Barksy

I agree with the first point.... the pope even told his female congregation to increase their birth rates to counter the growing birth rate of the islamic population.... We know its bad when good ole popey starts worrying! :smile:

Muslims in general don't believe in active contraception (like conservative christians in america)..... they believe it is preventing a natural process....Pls correct me if I'm wrong muslims.....

Reply 151

Hamesh

Original post by Margaret Thatcher

There is a difference, one is through propaganda i.e. negative rhetoric against Jews whilst the other is despite negative rhetoric against Muslims. For instance, subsequent to 9/11, there was a surge of converts to Islam in America.

Reply 152

Anony mouse

LOL. Oh well, that figure probably counts me as a Muslim too but there are also plenty of us who are not socially conservative at all.

Reply 153

llpokermuffinll

Original post by Margaret Thatcher

Comon use some sense. I mean if it was all about hatred, terrorism, sexism,... why would so many people be following it? And if you are talking about birth rate, then why should you be worrying? It's not gonna affect the world if its all about birth rate, because the number of other religions / atheists won't change.

And why are you ignoring the whole essay I wrote in the same post and just picking on this last sentence.

Reply 154

User414413

Original post by nazirard

20,000 Americans convert to Islam every year since 9/11. Three times more than pre 9/11.

And 75% leave Islam after a few years.

Original post by Margaret Thatcher

Why couldn't the boom be from an atheist, liberal group? :colonhash:

It is and at a much faster rate than the Muslim boom.

Original post by Phantom_X

secondly, it goes without saying that Islam forbids homosexuality- as does the christian, sikh and jewish faith. Does this mean all such religions are 'anti-western' ? Why are we not protesting against these faiths in the same way we protest against Islam ?

These religions don't have influence. The members in these religions have liberalised their religion, to a great extent. None of these religions operate under a country, as far as I know.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 155

bobbyjimmy

Original post by theorb21

I 'm happy... I'm the absolute opposite from nationalistic... I'd vote the transformation of Europe from continent to country, with each country turning into a state.

I don't believe in countries' boarders making any difference as to whether or not people should be allowed to live there... it doesn't really make any sense to me.

It's geographical and colour-based discrimination (okay maybe that's a bit too far).

I really can't see the problem, that the media and most people are implying.

EXACTLY!!

Reply 156

7589200

Wow, they're well tall now!

Reply 157

Hamesh

Original post by Annoying-Mouse

And 75% leave Islam after a few years.

I listened to the video bearing in mind that the speaker had said that the sample taken, 75%, is not random and was investigated through phone calls which had neglected the level of detail that could have been collected. The argument that you are proposing that it is because of Islam they are leaving is weak because firsty, the large majority who have reverted back to being Non-Muslim are ex-convicts who converted to Islam whilst in jail being in the presence of a commited practicing Muslim. The reason for reversion is due to isolation from Islam for ex-convicts since after being released, they sought no guidance, hence, why the speaker at the start said Islam is not merely leading someone to pronounce the Shahadah (the declaration of Islamic faith); the obligation of a Muslim 'extends beyond' this, i.e. becoming involved as a friend offering to help resolve doubts and assuredly influencing their faith in Islam to increase through being a constant reminder of Islam.

The second largest group was ex-wives of Muslim husbands, who I assume catergorically given the lack of information provided by the speaker, is a consequence of maritial breakdown, thus, these women desire no attachment to their ex-husbands, which includes his religion. Naturally, their children, who is usually cared for by the ex-wives revert to becoming Non-Muslims. The last group are religious transients that are quite obviously not commited to Islam by alternating religion for temporary periods of time.

The conclusion as to why reversion of converts to Islam occur according to the link, is due to influence which can either postively or negatively impact on their faith. This is not restricted to the religion, Islam, directly, but, rather pinpointing the fact that Islam is a way of life for Muslim, something which these reverts have lost the 'struggle' in.

Reply 158

User414413

Original post by Hamesh

...

Ok...

PS, this:

The argument that you are proposing...

is wrong.

Reply 159

LysFromParis

Original post by llpokermuffinll

OH Ironic. "We are the TRUE religion, we will rule the world". Yeah that's a so peaceful statement to make...

Second if a veracity of a religion is judged based on the number of its follower, well Christianity is the "true" religion. There is around 2 billions Christians while Muslim are 1.3 billions (Catholics alone are 1.2 billions)... Your pride in number is kind of childish and clearly misplaced...

The problem of Muslim people is aggressive people like you who feels the need to jump at everyone throat when the word "Islam" come into a conversation.