The Russell Group has published a list of "facilitating (preferred)" subjects

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They're not saying what subjects are hard or not - they're saying which one's are useful. The more 'traditional' subjects typically involve a lot of reading, thought, and are good building blocks for Uni.
I did A-Level Business Studies - probably the hardest A level I did, but let's be honest; it was useless.

Besides, they don't really need to state this. If you do Photography, Sociology, Textiles and Music Tech for your A Levels, then it's obvious you're not going to get into a Real uni...
If you don't realise that then maybe you don't even deserve to go to Nottingham Trent.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 41

lonelykatana

Original post by Stratos

You don't need a degree to make art...

You dont need a degree to do anything. Why can people not study a subject because they simply enjoy it?

Life is not about making money!

Knowledge > well paid job

Reply 42

Circadian_Rhythm

I'm surprised Geography is on the list to be honest, I heard recently it was softening.

Reply 43

WelshBluebird

Original post by jakethomas991

The more 'traditional' subjects typically involve a lot of reading, thought.

The same can be said for the less traditional ones though.
Certainly the amount of work, reading and thought my girlfriend has to do for her psychology A level is much more than what I had to do for my Physics A level.

Original post by jakethomas991

Besides, they don't really need to state this. If you do Photography, Sociology, Textiles and Music Tech for your A Levels, then it's obvious you're not going to get into a Real uni...
If you don't realise that then maybe you don't even deserve to go to Nottingham Trent.

It isn't not always that obvious. Especially when you come to subjects like Law, psychology, etc etc.

Reply 44

lonelykatana

Original post by Peter30

I'd like to see you try a chemistry A Level.

I know 2 people doing Physics, Biol, Chemistry and art :tongue:

Reply 45

Lily Academia

Original post by Peter30

I'd like to see you try a chemistry A Level.

I intend to do both - and I know for a fact I'll find Chemistry easier.

Reply 46

Lily Academia

Original post by lonelykatana

This, + English Lit and Maths :smile:

Nice range I think, and Fine Art's by far the most work effort-wise. Sure, it might be easier to pass in Art than in say, Maths, but I reckon you've got to have actual talent to get the A/A*.

Reply 47

Planar

1 soft subject, 4 hard. As expected.

Reply 48

HighestKungFu

I think it is a good thing that they have finally formalised this. It's also good that those who dare to take on the academically more challenging subjects are rewarded.

That being said, if you do plan to take an arts based subject vocationally then of course it is better to take art or drama etc. However, those who want academically challenging jobs should take academically challenging subjects to increase their employability.

economics?

I cant help but thinking there are two, equally retarded sides to this argument.
These being:

All 'soft' subjects are pointless
and
No subjects are 'soft'

Firstly, the 'all soft subjects are pointless' need to get a little fact into their thick heads. Not everyone goes to university to get a better paid job, some just enjoy learning. I know, hard to believe. Do you lot honestly think universities were set up as a path to a higher paid job? Well they were not. all the top 10 uni's were set up in the quest for knowledge, and I would be so surprised if the original founders were to say they would rather have a well paid job than a well rounded knowledge.
I wish to study an arts degree, and I know fully that the job prospects after it are not great. But I don't care. I want to study the degree because I want to learn more in the field, and increase my understanding and practical skill.
Does poor job prospects make them pointless? Any intelligent person would say no. Why do schools have to push the idea that you need to go to uni to make loadzamoneh? Life is not about money. I will take a good education over a high wage any day.

Secondly, of course some subjects are soft you idiots. Why would you honestly try and argue that business studies is not easier than further maths?! That's just so idiotic. some subjects are soft, like it or not. Does that mean they should not be studied? no. Does that mean they are pointless? No! Does that mean they deserve any less respect than 'hard' subjects? NO!!
But like it or not, some subjects simply are easier! Studying them doesn't reflect on your personality or attitude to work at all. My girlfriend studies 2 A level, 1 AS soft subject, yet she is very very intelligent (even if she is a little dim, and lacking general knowledge :tongue:

[she will read this haha]), and is getting the highest grades possible. I have no doubt she would be capable of studying the sciences and maths... But she doesn't enjoy it! Yet she will still be attending a Russell Group uni, to study Geography (granted, its ****ty human geography... ha)
There is no shame in studying a subject you enjoy, but to argue it is not easier/harder than others is idiotic.

The world needs science, I love reading into sciences. Yet I love some arts just as much. To argue the arts have not done as much for the world as sciences is idiotic.
We NEED both.
Why do people feel the need to say one subject is pointless? Or to argue their subject is just as hard as another.
Are you really that childish?

Its a good thing the Russel Group has made this publication. I also feel the need to point out they did not once say this is 100% the case, and they will simply not take into consideration people who hold A levels in 'soft subjects'. Nor that any subject is less worthwhile than another. Its the idiots on this forum who have said that.

Reply 51

Peter30

Original post by Lily Academia

I intend to do both - and I know for a fact I'll find Chemistry easier.

Chemistry A level isn't GCSE. Have fun drawing things.

Reply 52

F1 fanatic

I think with the slightly sensationalist title it is easy for this to be misread or misunderstood. There is nothing that I see here, having read the guide, that is new and there are no changes to entry requirements. It also says nowhere that "soft" subjects are easier or that "hard" subjects are better. The use of the phrase facilitating subjects is very important, it's not that the leaflet says that these subjects are better, it is saying that these are the subjects which keep the widest range of options open. The intention, which is an entirely positive thing imo, is to fully inform individuals about the impact of their choices at GCSE and A-level (or equivalent). It is intended for those who have not yet picked their A-levels. If an applicant knows that they wish to study a particular subject at university or go into a particular career and know the requirements of that course then that is fine and there is nothing wrong with doing "soft" subjects to achieve that if they are accepted. What it is trying to avoid is for an individual to make choices without realising that they have inadvertently narrowed their options for future studies and careers and are no longer able to pursue the career path that they intended.

Reply 53

mc1000

Original post by chlobofro

They act like these subjects aren't hard and they really are. Stupid. I'd like to see them try Art A Level.

Speaking from experience, I can say that art A Level isn't difficult. So I agree with them from an academic standpoint.

However, that said, it's a very time-consuming A-level. So therefore I agree with you in the respect that this may have a negative effect on your other subjects. Although the top universities - except for the very best - should (and I think do) take this into consideration... Hell, I got BSc offers from four top 94 group unis with an A-level in art. And I'd imagine their admissions procedure is similar to most of the Russell Group...

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 54

tory88

Not really surprised at anything, this is what I've been told for several years now.

Reply 55

stac4321

Original post by Mr Inquisitive

Art is devalued because of instances such as this.

"The invisible painting"

Ludicrous.

I don't see what's wrong with it. People create art like that to make a statement about art. Obviously you don't hang it on your wall. I wouldn't. But there is more to art than pretty pictures - it's expression and the artist obviously intented this to be thought provoking about the very nature of art itself. They succeded so surely this is good art? The point of it is to make a point. You don't have to like, you just to appreciate it before you completly dismiss it as "ludicrous".

Reply 56

stac4321

I didn't do Art and Design for A Level but it took it as higher for International Baccalaureate. It isn't the most strictly academic subject, but it is hard, requires skill rather than just memorising equations (which is also very hard, but requires a different set of skills, I always wished I was able to get my head around maths, but never could...). and it's highly subjective so obviously a lot harder to be the judge of. The creative skills and the analytical skills are very important as well as transferable.

I think the issue is that when people only have 3/5/6 A Levels max. logic may be more 'important' (for lack of a better word, I mean it in the sense that it is directly required). You don't NEED creativity to study science, but how many scientists made ground breaking discoveries due to the fact that they were able to think outside the box?!

Reply 57

el pollo diablo

Original post by Lily Academia

I intend to do both - and I know for a fact I'll find Chemistry easier.

You might want to reserve judgement until you actually start post-GCSE chemistry. They're really not comparable. I know plenty of people who had A/A* in GCSE chemistry and had a nasty shock when they got the results of their AS Level January exams.

In fact the above applies to all the science and maths A Levels.

Reply 58

morecambebay

Original post by Peter30

Chemistry A level isn't GCSE. Have fun drawing things.

Seconded.

My first A level chemistry lesson consisted of us being told to forget everything that we had been taught at GCSE because it was so simple it was wrong.

Reply 59

WelshBluebird

Original post by el pollo diablo

Original post by morecambebay

Seconded.

My first A level chemistry lesson consisted of us being told to forget everything that we had been taught at GCSE because it was so simple it was wrong.