Year 12s: what will be the first way you research your future options? >>

PBL or traditional?

sorry if this is in the wrong forum, or this is one of many many threads on PBL compared with traditional learning.

I've looked at PBL and asked quite a few medical students on their view on it and had quite a few mixed views! I know at the end of the day its my dessision but just wanted to know general views on it i.e

If you applied to a PBL university, do you regret it?

How independant is it? Like how much is it just YOU learning?

Does it make the transition from medical student to doctor easier, i.e you're used to the format and it isn't a big leap from the lecture room to the hospital?

Is it hard to adjust to that style of learning (PBL)?

I heard from someone that you have no support, you're not told how far to 'go', if you're going the completly wrong way in a diagnosis and not told what's on the exam so it really is just luck if something is on the exam and you have researched it. Course, they're not a medical student so i don't know where they got their source.

Any other info would be great too... i'll add more questions when i think of any!

Reply 1

Renal

stardustfairy

If you applied to a PBL university, do you regret it?Absolutely not.

How independant is it? Like how much is it just YOU learning?

At BL it certainly was, you have a list of things to cover, you go away, you find the sources, you note it, you learn it. There are lectures and tutorials that run alongside the PBLs which do guide your learning and research though.

Does it make the transition from medical student to doctor easier, i.e you're used to the format and it isn't a big leap from the lecture room to the hospital?

Absolutely.

Is it hard to adjust to that style of learning (PBL)?

I don't think so. Most people manage just fine. But, you have to be a little bit mature and a little motivated.

I heard from someone that you have no support, you're not told how far to 'go', if you're going the completly wrong way in a diagnosis and not told what's on the exam so it really is just luck if something is on the exam and you have researched it. Course, they're not a medical student so i don't know where they got their source.

Right. Going too far is a problem, but only usually for the first few weeks, after that you settle into a pattern that's governed by your own learning needs - some people need to make copious notes on every last detail to make sure they know it (Crazyhelicopter for one), whereas others are happy with sketch notes which they can talk around (like me).

There's not really such a thing as learning for the exams, it's not like school where you do Diabetes in first year and then finish with it, you'll see these big things year-after-year right up to and well beyond finals.

Going off on the wrong track does happen, but the facilitators almost always point the group back onto track - subtly or otherwise.

Reply 2

Hygeia

stardustfairy

If you applied to a PBL university, do you regret it?

Don't regret it at all as it really seems to suit my style of learning.For PBL to work well though, I think everyone in the group needs to like PBL and learn well from it as the one or two PBL-haters who inevitably get in can really mess up your learning. I've had a good group in year 1, a really excellent group in year 2, and a disaster group in year 3, however, the standard of work produced was excellent.

How independant is it? Like how much is it just YOU learning?

The way my uni does it is to get us to brainstorm the learning outcomes for the week then split them up among the group so individuals go away and research their particular questions, write up a couple of pages on it then present it back to the rest of the group. I know some unis where everyone has to research all the questions then each person has to feed back one so there is variation in the way places do it.
A lot of the time you are responsible for your own learning, you have to read through the other people's work and read around it/clarify things that are less clear. In some cases you may want to adapt their work so it's more suitable for your style of revision. You've got to be motivated to do the reading though.

Does it make the transition from medical student to doctor easier, i.e you're used to the format and it isn't a big leap from the lecture room to the hospital?

As I'm only giong into 4th year this September, I can't comment from experience. However, I expect it to make it easier as we are very much taught a way of thinking and where to go for more information rather than just memorising a huge amount of things (though obviously some of this is required!)

Is it hard to adjust to that style of learning (PBL)?

For me, it wasn't too hard but others struggled more. I can see a huge difference in how we brainstormed and the learning outcomes we came up with in week 1 to what's happened this year and it showed me that as you get used to PBL, you do become better at it (in my opinion anyway) and a small amount of adaptation is required.

We have a facilitator overseeing each group session and they can make a huge difference to how well the group works together. They are given the weeks learning outcomes for each week and are meant to make sure we cover everything we need to in our brainstorm. I had a useless facilitator this year who looked through the list and made her own mind up about what we needed from it so didn't tell us some things and added in others of her own... not brilliant! I think that's one of the things with PBL, you're very reliant on both the facilitator and the other members of the group. At the end of the week, we are given the outcomes and can go away and make sure we've covered everything.
We also have lectures and seminars to guide our learning, with time in the dissection room for anatomy as well.

Any other info would be great too... i'll add more questions when i think of any!

Make sure PBL is something you'd be happy doing before applying as PBL haters can really make things difficult for others on the course!

Reply 3

belis

stardustfairy

If you applied to a PBL university, do you regret it?

I don't regret it at the moment. I will get back to you in few years time wen my self tought wisdom is put to a real test wen I start working.

stardustfairy

How independant is it? Like how much is it just YOU learning?

At Manchester it is very muc your own work. In preclinicals you have about 15 hours of contact time a week (mixture of PBL sessions, lectures, disections and other practicals). In clinical years it very much depend on your firm. I ad placements where I had 1:1 teaching pretty much all day long plus clear instructions what to read up at home. I also ad placements where I was left to my own devices and ad no teaching at all.

stardustfairy

Is it hard to adjust to that style of learning (PBL)?

It varies from person to person. The PBL process itself (formulating learning objectives on the basis of a clinical scenario) takes a bit of getting used to. There is a lot of help at first though. Motivation is a big thing. You need to take responsibility for your own learning as none will really check on what you are doing with your time until exams.

stardustfairy

It is partially true. Particulary if your tutor is not so good. Some people tend to go crazy and research learning objectives into miniute details. Some groups tend to avoid psychosocial aspects of the case concentrating on the sciance. Then they are suprised that they fail the exams. Personaly I was never suprised about the stuff that came up in exams. If I didn't know something it was becouse I had no intrest in learning it not becouse I didn't know that I should. If you have doubts about what you should be doing there is planty of support available. However it is your responsibility to ask for help.

Reply 4

dmz

How do you know whether you'll like it or not? I find lessons boring and I learn most things myself but I usually remember what people/teacher day in class a lot of times, I'm however lazy though that's something that'll have to change whatever I do and I'm motivated enough. any way of telling if it'll suit me?

Reply 5

airtones

dude... this thread is like 2 years old. The OP is a medic at Lancaster now from what I gather.

But anyway, I'm the kind of person who likes someone to just tell me how it is. You tell me, I learn it. Done. People who like PBL tend to be more into learning by discussing things.