No2AV campaign is full of lies!!

This is disgusting!

1. Ridiculous fallacy that the UK will spend £250 implementing the reform
2. No reason is given for the spending!!

I think it's horrible that they can try to mislead people like this.

http://www.yestofairervotes.org/pages/av-myths

Myth 10) AV will cost us £250 million

The No camp’s sums, like their arguments, simply don’t add up. There will be no electronic counting machines aren’t an issue in this referendum. This has been confirmed by the Electoral Commission.

Australia has hand counted its elections for 8 decades. The £130 million of make-believe machines don’t exist in Australia and won’t exist in the UK.

AV will keep what is best about our current system – the link between an MP serving their local constituency – but strengthens it by making MPs work harder to get elected and giving voters more of a say. Short on arguments the No campaign are trying to claim we can’t afford change. After the expenses crisis we can’t afford not to.

Article here.

Thoughts?

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1

tripleeagle

"The proponents of this campaign, the head of which is David Cameron, will do anything they can to maintain the status quo of this country."

Is the head of the campaign David Cameron?

Reply 2

Muffinz

Original post by tripleeagle

"The proponents of this campaign, the head of which is David Cameron, will do anything they can to maintain the status quo of this country."

Is the head of the campaign David Cameron?

He is the most prominant figure campaigning for the no vote.

Reply 3

tripleeagle

Original post by Muffinz

He is the most prominant figure campaigning for the no vote.

...because you say so?

Reply 4

Muffinz

Original post by tripleeagle

...because you say so?

Because he's the prime minister and it's been all over national news?

sigh.

Reply 5

tripleeagle

Original post by Muffinz

Because he's the prime minister and it's been all over national news?

sigh.

So what if he is PM? That doesn't mean that he is "head of the No2AV campaign".

It's not because Nick Clegg is Deputy PM and that he donated to the RSPCA, for example, that he is leading the RSPCA's operations now.

Yes Cameron is important, yes he is affiliated with the campaign, but to say that he's the head is lying or misleading to say the least...

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 6

jakemittle

Original post by tripleeagle

?

He is the most famous figure to back the no vote....

At the launch of the No2Av campaign in London its director Matthew Elliott said he wanted to see more "transparency" in politics and not a political system "conducted behind closed doors".

source

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 7

tripleeagle

Original post by jakemittle

He is the most famous figure to back the no vote....

Maybe I am confused but I never knew that you become head of something just by supporting it and being famous :confused:

Reply 8

A Cat

Original post by tripleeagle

Maybe I am confused but I never knew that you become head of something just by supporting it and being famous :confused:

then who is the leader of this campaign? Why do you choose such a petty little thing to argue about?

Reply 9

callum9999

Original post by Dan1992

In practical de facto terms he is head of the campaign at the moment (and for the foreseeable future) because he is the leading light people look to on the issue (because yes, he is quite famous, what with being PM and all- and being a politician, it's kind of in his field of expertise,) it's a simple truth, stop being so intentionally difficult, jeez.

I think the point was that if he is designated as the head, it is implied he's personally involved in the lies (I don't know if they actually are lies or not - just going on what someone said). If he isn't actually the head, and is just involved, then it's presumably not his fault.

Reply 10

Norfolkadam

I like Glenn.

But yeah, that's not a great campaign video and I think a lot of people will just say "Oh well you won't spend £250m on children or health (because of the cuts) so you might as well spend it on AV"

Reply 11

tripleeagle

Original post by Samrout

Why do you choose such a petty little thing to argue about?

The reason I point this out is because the writer of this article seems to be seeking to place blame for this on Cameron. By putting the PM's name there, he makes Cameron somehow responsible for the video's content.

To be honest, I agree with the OP but I don't agree with the writer's intentions.

Original post by Dan1992

Oh, ok sorry, fair enough this is very true [...] he is unlikely to personally head a campaign, and even less likely to be responsible for the content of some propaganda video... So yeah my bad, valid point.

I think you understand why I was being so pedantic :biggrin:

Reply 12

Craig_D

Original post by tripleeagle

Maybe I am confused but I never knew that you become head of something just by supporting it and being famous :confused:

Well he's the most senior figure backing the campaign and therefore has the ultimate authority. Nobody's authority supersedes his, so even though he isn't running the campaign on a day-to-day basis he is still effectively at the head of it. The Queen has nothing to do with the government, but she's still the most senior figure and therefore is its head.

Reply 13

Louis.

The permanent coalition argument is a bunch of bull as well from what I can tell.

Reply 14

tripleeagle

Original post by Craig_D

I agree; however, I think the way in which the writer called Cameron "head" was implying that Cameron was somehow responsible for the creation of the video.

Reply 15

Craig_D

Original post by tripleeagle

I agree; however, I think the way in which the writer called Cameron "head" was implying that Cameron was somehow responsible for the creation of the video.

I think you're probably right on that point, it is indeed all in the wording.

Reply 16

Muffinz

Original post by loafer

You are literally just lying, I know this because a 1 second google found this 12-page PDF guide on how they reached their result.

Click here if you want to see it.
http://votemay5th.notoav.org/documents/the-cost-of-AV.pdf

So, whether you agree or not with aspects of their methodology, you are still wrong.

I just wanted to point out how hypocritical you are..

In the video they give no reason and no link to the PDF. Kthx.

Also:

http://www.yestofairervotes.org/pages/av-myths

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 17

Muffinz

Original post by loafer

No, you were lying/spreading ignorance and you got caught out...

You were throwing around hysterical accusations like 'misleading', 'This is disgusting!', 'Ridiculous fallacy', 'it's horrible that they can try to mislead people like this' - but you were completely wrong yourself.

It doesn't matter that you have found that their opponents have a blog which claims that they are wrong.

I'm not supporting their figures, I am correcting you - they have given detailed information on how they got to £250m.

The comments I made were purely regarding the campaigning material, i.e. that video. They don't say "here's a detailed breakdown of all the spending" in the video, nor do they link to the pdf. The accusations are not hysterical, they're justified. The no vote camp are trying to support a failed system whose only beneficiaries are the conservative and labour parties. Also, the "blog" I referenced for the no machines is not simply a blog, its the official website of the yes campaign. Thanks for being oblivious.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 18

L i b

Cameron is not, by any manner of means, "head" of the No2AV campaign. The President of the No Campaign (a limited company, of which No2AV is a brand) is the Labour MP Margaret. There is both a Labour and Conservative "National Organiser" for the No Campaign, and several "patrons" from both parties. The rest are professional staff.

None of the above are David Cameron.