University of St Andrews
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St Andrews University: A Warning
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I don't think its fair to say I've been pwned by anyone LOL, I expected flame wars to begin and to be insulted and hated on by a lot of people who spend ages on this site talking St Andrews up...although that word is quite funny 
, all I set out to do was give for the normal, average person looking for (amongst other things) a fun, exciting and diverse university experience a good idea of what they'd feel like if they came to St Andrews, and since I started this thread is been one of the most read in this section of the site, even if not everyone agress with me, i've gotten a fair amount of thanks and had people contact me via messaging to ay either thanks or ask questions- thats exactly what I wanted. I wanted attention to be drawn to the realities (from my, and several other perspectives) of living in St Andrews to warn others what they're putting themselevs in for, so I feel like I've suceeded in what I wanted to do quite nicely...
I think the focus of the original post was a little skewed though because I focused too much on the physical aspects of the place and, its not just the lack of clubs or shopping centres, thats almost bearable although it takes getting used to...and thats the thing, I think even if I had visited, I may have come anyway in the end because I thought you know what, I can have fun anywhere, its the people and the atmosphere that count....but thats excatly my point, and I wished I stressed this more- its the culture, attitudes and behaviour that charcterizes this place that bothers me most. There are 'normal' people from ordinary backgrounds here, but here the whole look and feel of the place and the social side of things is just completely fake and characterized by pretentiousness and people tryign to keep within their social circles, however large all small, which is not what a place should be like. People here are so stuck in their own little worlds, its amazing, and really sad. You go back home to a normal town or city and the difference socially is amazing, its like a breath of fresh air.
You've just agreed with one of the main compalints I expressed in my last post...you put a positive spin on it at the end, but what you just said is bang on, I've noted it too, except I and I think most people won't wager that, they'll find it unbearable. The culture of a place and the way people interact is an extremely signficant part of things, it could make the diference between a great student experience and a depressing one. Student life is suppossed to be partly about mixing and experiencing different things, meeting new people and having fun, here a lot of that is stripped away because of how afriad people are to speak to people they don't know or treat people not from the same background as equals, which makes the places extremely stagnant even for those who have several friends. Thats something I think people should really know, because its important, a social scene charcterised by cliques and complete inaction can ruin your time at a place. I've found friends here, but I still find the social atmosphere really unpleasant and maddeningly stagnant.
Again, you've expressed this more kindly, but you've agreed essentially with my main arguement- that this place is not somewhere where you'll get to experience student life as you can in other places, and yes has several negative points, which I've highlighted also just in less St andrews-fantatic-friendly terms....I constantly have to remind myself that st Andrews is not really part of the 'normal' world- you'll find a social realm here stranger than any other I've experienced, too...but thats not a compliment.
, all I set out to do was give for the normal, average person looking for (amongst other things) a fun, exciting and diverse university experience a good idea of what they'd feel like if they came to St Andrews, and since I started this thread is been one of the most read in this section of the site, even if not everyone agress with me, i've gotten a fair amount of thanks and had people contact me via messaging to ay either thanks or ask questions- thats exactly what I wanted. I wanted attention to be drawn to the realities (from my, and several other perspectives) of living in St Andrews to warn others what they're putting themselevs in for, so I feel like I've suceeded in what I wanted to do quite nicely...I think the focus of the original post was a little skewed though because I focused too much on the physical aspects of the place and, its not just the lack of clubs or shopping centres, thats almost bearable although it takes getting used to...and thats the thing, I think even if I had visited, I may have come anyway in the end because I thought you know what, I can have fun anywhere, its the people and the atmosphere that count....but thats excatly my point, and I wished I stressed this more- its the culture, attitudes and behaviour that charcterizes this place that bothers me most. There are 'normal' people from ordinary backgrounds here, but here the whole look and feel of the place and the social side of things is just completely fake and characterized by pretentiousness and people tryign to keep within their social circles, however large all small, which is not what a place should be like. People here are so stuck in their own little worlds, its amazing, and really sad. You go back home to a normal town or city and the difference socially is amazing, its like a breath of fresh air.
Original post by ch0llima
There is definitely a lot of posing and snobbery going on, but I'll happily wager that it's because it comes part and parcel with the age group, the clientele and the sort of student experience St Andrews offers.
There is definitely a lot of posing and snobbery going on, but I'll happily wager that it's because it comes part and parcel with the age group, the clientele and the sort of student experience St Andrews offers.
You've just agreed with one of the main compalints I expressed in my last post...you put a positive spin on it at the end, but what you just said is bang on, I've noted it too, except I and I think most people won't wager that, they'll find it unbearable. The culture of a place and the way people interact is an extremely signficant part of things, it could make the diference between a great student experience and a depressing one. Student life is suppossed to be partly about mixing and experiencing different things, meeting new people and having fun, here a lot of that is stripped away because of how afriad people are to speak to people they don't know or treat people not from the same background as equals, which makes the places extremely stagnant even for those who have several friends. Thats something I think people should really know, because its important, a social scene charcterised by cliques and complete inaction can ruin your time at a place. I've found friends here, but I still find the social atmosphere really unpleasant and maddeningly stagnant.
Original post by ch0llima
I can relate to the arrogant cliqueyness, and it is quite sad that such a small number of people in such a small town will bunch into tiny groups and refuse to integrate with each other, this being true in halls as well. I was surprised when my school friend visiting from Edinburgh (both of us are from there, and he studied there too) actually came out and said this as if it was screamingly obvious - looking back, it actually was!
I've not seen that sort of thing anywhere since.
I can relate to the arrogant cliqueyness, and it is quite sad that such a small number of people in such a small town will bunch into tiny groups and refuse to integrate with each other, this being true in halls as well. I was surprised when my school friend visiting from Edinburgh (both of us are from there, and he studied there too) actually came out and said this as if it was screamingly obvious - looking back, it actually was!
I've not seen that sort of thing anywhere since. Again, you've expressed this more kindly, but you've agreed essentially with my main arguement- that this place is not somewhere where you'll get to experience student life as you can in other places, and yes has several negative points, which I've highlighted also just in less St andrews-fantatic-friendly terms....I constantly have to remind myself that st Andrews is not really part of the 'normal' world- you'll find a social realm here stranger than any other I've experienced, too...but thats not a compliment.
University of St Andrews
Original post by ch0llima
Aikman's/The Cellar (when they were still there),
Aikman's is back!
And yes, the careers centre is crap, but there are a lot of events put on by big employers (I don't know how this compares to other unis though, I was never interested in actually getting a job so I never went to any...).
What on Earth is upper-working class?
You'll have to come, visit and try and get a sense of the social atmosphere yourself to decide, but personally, in my experience, there are ordinary people here who are upper working class, lower middle class etc in halls and places like Albany Park and Fife Park, because they're cheap...but the snobbery and cliqueishness which charcetrises St Andrews is unavoidable, really, is evident in everything from the housing prices to the weird traditions that this university is catered towards a particular demographic (they're currently trying to tear down some of the cheaper accomodation in Fife Park to make way for 6,000k a year flats)....the tone here is set by the upper middle classers and above.
Moreso than that, its a place where like I've said, theres a limited amount of mixing and socialising between social groups, as a previous poster has stated (ch0llima), for such a small place, its a sad fact that people just stick to their cliques, which is dissappointing and boring really- everyone needs a group, but whats a University experience without a sense of community and social mixing? There are a fair amount of people that don't wear designer clothes to Tescos, but you will feel in the minority as someone from a poorer background, I can guarantee it. I'd suggest going to a city-based Uni where you're more likely to mix with people from a similar background- and where a lot mroe socialising between and amongst people goes on which makes the whole social side of things way more reqarding...but again, its up to you, if you want the benefit of having St Andrews on your CV you may feel its worth sacrificing a better overall experience for....but as I said, visit, talk to other people when you do visit and try to get a sense of the place.
Moreso than that, its a place where like I've said, theres a limited amount of mixing and socialising between social groups, as a previous poster has stated (ch0llima), for such a small place, its a sad fact that people just stick to their cliques, which is dissappointing and boring really- everyone needs a group, but whats a University experience without a sense of community and social mixing? There are a fair amount of people that don't wear designer clothes to Tescos, but you will feel in the minority as someone from a poorer background, I can guarantee it. I'd suggest going to a city-based Uni where you're more likely to mix with people from a similar background- and where a lot mroe socialising between and amongst people goes on which makes the whole social side of things way more reqarding...but again, its up to you, if you want the benefit of having St Andrews on your CV you may feel its worth sacrificing a better overall experience for....but as I said, visit, talk to other people when you do visit and try to get a sense of the place.
Original post by killer whale
Excellent post OP. St Andrews is such an overrated university. It isn't anything special academically, no better than twenty or so others, and clearly inferior to Oxbridge, and yet the actual student experience sucks.
The weather is dismal, there is absolutely nothing to do as you say. and those who sing its praises are either practising cognitive dissonance, or they don't know what they are missing.
OR they aren't being as honest as you are.
Well done for keeping it real.
The weather is dismal, there is absolutely nothing to do as you say. and those who sing its praises are either practising cognitive dissonance, or they don't know what they are missing.
OR they aren't being as honest as you are.
Well done for keeping it real.
Who was comparing it to Oxbridge?
It's decent for my subject academically.
The weather is decent for Scotland and it's sunny, the sunniest part of Scotland.
I can't say I've ever been bored or had a lack of things to do, with societies, better balls than my friends at UCL and parties.
I live near London and have travelled quite a bit, so I do know what other places have to offer.
St As isn't perfect, but it isn't as flawed as OP claims imo.
Again, it's personal preference.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Milk <3
whats the ratio of yahs to non yahs? is it true most of them are in st salvadors? how does that work if you cant choose your accomo 
dont get me wrong im sure theyve lovely people, but i dont know if, as an upper-working class lad ill fit in!
dont get me wrong im sure theyve lovely people, but i dont know if, as an upper-working class lad ill fit in!
You can choose your accom
Just write a little note with your application form and magic.
Yes, Sallies is v rah
things really did get **** after they closed the woolworths up there...
Original post by Umiisadorable
i The lack of openness amongst people to others-
People here rarely mix and mostly stick to whatever social groups they've cultivated. As a result, a lot of people, I think, come here and can feel extremely lonely and dissatisfied because of how stagnant things are socially-the lack of new people to meet, the anticlimactic social events and the general sense of things constantly being the same, week on week. Its draining experiencing a bit of what student life should be in places like Edinburgh, Bristol and Southampton where my friends go, and seeing how people mix and socialise and talk to oen and other freely and openly on nights out and coming back to St Andrews where people shoot each other disdainful looks and spend balls and social events pouting with their arms crossed amongst their groups of girlfriends. Its a place where despite how small it is, even people who elsewhere would have a great time can feel completely on their own or otherwise trapped in a stagnant social circle....
ii 'High School' mentalitites.
My friends at Bristol and Southampton were confused when I mentioned cliques, as they commented that at their institutions, everyone essentially socialises with each other- the architect students plan huge trips and nights out together, and a lot of people know each other and pretty much become friends by accident and via knowing others. Here, its very socially rigid in my experience- people limit themselves to people whom they percieve to be 'good enough' to hang out with and theres very little comradeship amongst fellow students to be witnessed- the atmosphere, even in tutorials, in my experience, is generally intense and competetive where it should be fun and bonding.
i The lack of openness amongst people to others-
People here rarely mix and mostly stick to whatever social groups they've cultivated. As a result, a lot of people, I think, come here and can feel extremely lonely and dissatisfied because of how stagnant things are socially-the lack of new people to meet, the anticlimactic social events and the general sense of things constantly being the same, week on week. Its draining experiencing a bit of what student life should be in places like Edinburgh, Bristol and Southampton where my friends go, and seeing how people mix and socialise and talk to oen and other freely and openly on nights out and coming back to St Andrews where people shoot each other disdainful looks and spend balls and social events pouting with their arms crossed amongst their groups of girlfriends. Its a place where despite how small it is, even people who elsewhere would have a great time can feel completely on their own or otherwise trapped in a stagnant social circle....
ii 'High School' mentalitites.
My friends at Bristol and Southampton were confused when I mentioned cliques, as they commented that at their institutions, everyone essentially socialises with each other- the architect students plan huge trips and nights out together, and a lot of people know each other and pretty much become friends by accident and via knowing others. Here, its very socially rigid in my experience- people limit themselves to people whom they percieve to be 'good enough' to hang out with and theres very little comradeship amongst fellow students to be witnessed- the atmosphere, even in tutorials, in my experience, is generally intense and competetive where it should be fun and bonding.
To some degree. I think it depends on who you hang out with. I have met people like the ones you describe, but I have also met lots of friendly and open people who like to socialize and network, but then people in my subject are all quite pally. I think your experience depends on the halls you live in and the subject you study.
Original post by Umiisadorable
iii Atmosphere on campus
A lot of posturing and showing off goes on, the whole place can feel like a giant catwalk/pageant at times- for instance the majority of female students are almost indistinguishable from one and other because in desperation to fit in, so many of them wear the EXACT same outfit: black tights, wellies, a jacket and a (preferably desginer) handbag. I'm not kidding, I almost buckled to the pressure of trying it, because almost every female looks/dresses this way! The hemogeny of it can feel extremely alienating. In a regular university, the odd few dress up in Topshop to go to lectures but equally a lot of people are comfortable to wear hoodies and jeans on campus, here, girls get dressed up in designer gear and expensive outfits to go to Tescos.
iii Atmosphere on campus
A lot of posturing and showing off goes on, the whole place can feel like a giant catwalk/pageant at times- for instance the majority of female students are almost indistinguishable from one and other because in desperation to fit in, so many of them wear the EXACT same outfit: black tights, wellies, a jacket and a (preferably desginer) handbag. I'm not kidding, I almost buckled to the pressure of trying it, because almost every female looks/dresses this way! The hemogeny of it can feel extremely alienating. In a regular university, the odd few dress up in Topshop to go to lectures but equally a lot of people are comfortable to wear hoodies and jeans on campus, here, girls get dressed up in designer gear and expensive outfits to go to Tescos.
yeah there are people who dress like that, but I'm told it's even worse in London unis who dress up and look fashionable for lectures. I'm sure it happens in every uni to some degree. I don't give a ****. I'll wear my trackie bs, hoodies etc. I don't need to impress some rah studying history of art or IR.Original post by Umiisadorable
iv Snobbery
Its been stated before, but there are a lot of upper middle class [and above] people- this is not ALL by any means, but certainly some- at the University who behave as though they own it, which if you're just an ordinary person from lower middle class or working class background, as I think most people in Britain are generally, it can make it difficult to find people whom you relate to. This snobbery is something I experienced last year in Halls in Andrew Melville, where people openly made rude comments about me as I was walking past- [American students whom I'd never spoken to], and others who used to, for instance, stretch themselves out in the middle of the corridor and refuse to move when someone approached, because they expected the person to merely step over their outstretched legs. Other common behvaiour included a designated clique occupying every seat in the public kitchens during mealtimes, and then proceeding to shoot suspicious glances at anyone else who entered.
iv Snobbery
Its been stated before, but there are a lot of upper middle class [and above] people- this is not ALL by any means, but certainly some- at the University who behave as though they own it, which if you're just an ordinary person from lower middle class or working class background, as I think most people in Britain are generally, it can make it difficult to find people whom you relate to. This snobbery is something I experienced last year in Halls in Andrew Melville, where people openly made rude comments about me as I was walking past- [American students whom I'd never spoken to], and others who used to, for instance, stretch themselves out in the middle of the corridor and refuse to move when someone approached, because they expected the person to merely step over their outstretched legs. Other common behvaiour included a designated clique occupying every seat in the public kitchens during mealtimes, and then proceeding to shoot suspicious glances at anyone else who entered.
Idk, I have experienced similar things on occasion, but the people were just *******s tbh. Some people are just unpleasant and need to form groups and are scared to talk to outsiders. Most of the people I know are not like this and are reasonable, nice people. You can meet *******s anywhere.
Original post by Umiisadorable
Anger at this sort of behaviour in particular is what partly led me to start this thread, its not just the lack of city-like attractions, its the arrongance and disdain that permeates the behaviour of quite a few people I've met here towards others here that can have you in tears. When I'm back home or in a city, I'm myself again because I'm surrounded by people who like myself, are open-minded and don;t feel the need to prove something I came here knowing it was small and not like a city, but was expecting a far better social atmosphere, thats my main complaint.
Anger at this sort of behaviour in particular is what partly led me to start this thread, its not just the lack of city-like attractions, its the arrongance and disdain that permeates the behaviour of quite a few people I've met here towards others here that can have you in tears. When I'm back home or in a city, I'm myself again because I'm surrounded by people who like myself, are open-minded and don;t feel the need to prove something I came here knowing it was small and not like a city, but was expecting a far better social atmosphere, thats my main complaint.
Original post by why-hello-there
things really did get **** after they closed the woolworths up there...
Ah but then we had Nisa
and now H&M
Bring back Nisa!
Original post by No Future
Ah but then we had Nisa
and now H&M
Bring back Nisa!
and now H&M
Bring back Nisa!
hehe
i'll be honest, i only go up there now for the putting (cause i like golf, just can't play it
) any idea if that north point cafe (or something like that) is still there? they did good scrambled egg
Original post by why-hello-there
hehe
i'll be honest, i only go up there now for the putting (cause i like golf, just can't play it )
any idea if that north point cafe (or something like that) is still there? they did good scrambled egg
i'll be honest, i only go up there now for the putting (cause i like golf, just can't play it
) any idea if that north point cafe (or something like that) is still there? they did good scrambled egg
North Point is def the place for breakfast, you're right there
Lower middle class, then? There's nothing wrong with calling yoursellf "upper working class" (although I have never heard such a term - it's usually divided beween skilled and unskilled working class). But if your family are in office or professional jobs, earn above average incomes and you have (or will have) a university education it's difficult to really define yourself as
I come from mining stock. My maternal grandfather was a miner, my paternal grandfather went to grammar school and became a clerk and lived in a respectable council house until they bought it. His son, my father, became a draughtsman and then a design engineer (so certainly a middle class, professional occupation). I was brought up in a modest detached house and we were comfortably off (though never well off) and now I'm at a very middle class university (looking to enter a very middle class profession).
So I recognise my working class roots but I'm certainly not, or ever was, working class. Then again I don't really feel particularly middle class. I suppose I'm quite classless. So I understand.
People on long term benefits (certainly those who scrounge and not claiming out of genuine need) are the underclass.
I find it quite sad that the OP, who is only expressing an opinion and his/her experience, gets negged for it. I could understand if it was an obvious troll making incredulous statements and then not countering other peoples points. It doesn't appear that this is the case although I haven't read the thread.
It's only one opinion and not every single student is going to be satisfied. I certainly have major issues with my university and these need addressing (not St Andrews btw), though I'm not exactly unhappy here and recognise that the grass always seems greener on the other side.
I come from mining stock. My maternal grandfather was a miner, my paternal grandfather went to grammar school and became a clerk and lived in a respectable council house until they bought it. His son, my father, became a draughtsman and then a design engineer (so certainly a middle class, professional occupation). I was brought up in a modest detached house and we were comfortably off (though never well off) and now I'm at a very middle class university (looking to enter a very middle class profession).
So I recognise my working class roots but I'm certainly not, or ever was, working class. Then again I don't really feel particularly middle class. I suppose I'm quite classless. So I understand.
People on long term benefits (certainly those who scrounge and not claiming out of genuine need) are the underclass.
I find it quite sad that the OP, who is only expressing an opinion and his/her experience, gets negged for it. I could understand if it was an obvious troll making incredulous statements and then not countering other peoples points. It doesn't appear that this is the case although I haven't read the thread.
It's only one opinion and not every single student is going to be satisfied. I certainly have major issues with my university and these need addressing (not St Andrews btw), though I'm not exactly unhappy here and recognise that the grass always seems greener on the other side.
Original post by why-hello-there
hehe
i'll be honest, i only go up there now for the putting (cause i like golf, just can't play it )
any idea if that north point cafe (or something like that) is still there? they did good scrambled egg
i'll be honest, i only go up there now for the putting (cause i like golf, just can't play it
) any idea if that north point cafe (or something like that) is still there? they did good scrambled egg
It is but they're selling it apparently, although are in no rush to do so.
Original post by Slumpy
No idea about the uni.
As a place, who cares about the lack of shops? There's plenty for everything I need, certainly. And the beach is useable year round...
Also, if you think the clubs in Dundee are good, you're clearly quite confused.
As a place, who cares about the lack of shops? There's plenty for everything I need, certainly. And the beach is useable year round...
Also, if you think the clubs in Dundee are good, you're clearly quite confused.
are the clubs in dundee not good?
on a scale of 1-10, with places like liverpool, newcastle at 9/10 (word of mouth I just heard they're good) where is dundee?
Original post by bestofyou
are the clubs in dundee not good?
on a scale of 1-10, with places like liverpool, newcastle at 9/10 (word of mouth I just heard they're good) where is dundee?
on a scale of 1-10, with places like liverpool, newcastle at 9/10 (word of mouth I just heard they're good) where is dundee?
I've only been clubbing in Cambridge, Dundee, Glasgow, Durham and I suppose St Andrews, so don't have much to compare to, and I probably rate Cambridge as the best of those, but that might be because I have more experience of them.
Original post by Slumpy
I've only been clubbing in Cambridge, Dundee, Glasgow, Durham and I suppose St Andrews, so don't have much to compare to, and I probably rate Cambridge as the best of those, but that might be because I have more experience of them.
I've heard that glasgow is pretty decent, so dundee compared to glasgow.
When you say clubbing...just nightclubs, or pubs included??
Its just nightlife for me is a key factor when firming
Original post by bestofyou
I've heard that glasgow is pretty decent, so dundee compared to glasgow.
When you say clubbing...just nightclubs, or pubs included??
Its just nightlife for me is a key factor when firming
When you say clubbing...just nightclubs, or pubs included??
Its just nightlife for me is a key factor when firming
My experience is mostly limited to one club in dundee, and I've had some good nights there. Never bothered going there for pubs as I'm happy enough with the ones in St Andrews.
Read through the entire thread before reopening an old thread please.
Yes. There are a few hundred opposes.
Yes. There are a few hundred opposes.
Original post by Umiisadorable
O.K, I'm writing this because I wished someone had done the same for me when I was applying to University, and been honest about what its REALLY like at St Andrews. I am a Second year student at the University, and wanted to make a formal warning to people wanting to apply to this University, because I don't want others to be duped the way that I was ...
It's people like you that piss me off in St Andrews. If you don't like it leave - We have enough annoying stuck up ***** in the town.
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