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You obviously don't know football if you think a lone forward's role is to just have shots. Barca don't always leave their DM back, Busquets presses on himself sometimes.

Even if we ignore the presence another person on the pitch brings, you want to ignore the chance at the end, you don't think RVP would have done better?

What makes you so sure RVP would've been still on at that stage, esp given his fitness levels?

Reply 6301

Kreuzuerk

Original post by RNBen

Not at all, and evidently you are incapable of having a decent conversation so I will probably leave it here.

By acknowledging that RvP would convert his chance 9 in 10 times I have accepted that it is a far more likely outcome. However, it is not a certainty and thus those saying "If RvP was on he would have scored and Arsenal would be through." are completely incorrect - there is no possible way of knowing what the outcome would have been should RvP been on the pitch at the time (therefore one cannot ignore the fact that he may have also missed said chance).

I appreciate that you may wish to believe that Arsenal would have gone through if they had 11 men throughout the game, however there is no way for you or anyone else to know that and thus, you must simply accept that on the night Barca went through. On the night RvP was not on the pitch to convert the chance that fell to Bendtner and on the night Messi was not hit by a falling meteorite.

Jesus. Do you want all football commentaries to go something like this 'look at that chance. player x would have buried it. PROBABLY. must account for all possibilities you see'? of course it's not a certainty, just a considerable likelihood.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 6302

MoMatrix

Original post by Zayne101

Who's trolling? Arsenal and Liverpool DON'T WIN THE LEAGUE.

LIKE IN SPAIN .

ONLY TWO TEAMS WIN THE LEAGUE

MAN UTD AND CHELSEA

Those are just facts if you are tyring to say only REAL MADRID AND BARCELONA WIN THE LEAGUE.

So there you go and go **** yourself :smile:

To be fair Valencia and the other also-rans have no chance of winning La Liga .

Reply 6303

Economist

Original post by RNBen

By acknowledging that RvP would convert his chance 9 in 10 times I have accepted that it is a far more likely outcome. However, it is not a certainty and thus those saying "If RvP was on he would have scored and Arsenal would be through." are completely incorrect - there is no possible way of knowing what the outcome would have been should RvP been on the pitch at the time (therefore one cannot ignore the fact that he may have also missed said chance).

So we can't assume RVP would have scored but we can assume we wouldn't have created any chances (even though we did) had he stayed on the pitch? Strong logic, we lost a lone forward, a lone forward who's presence occupies the centre backs and in RVP someone who may well have finished Bendtner's chance.

So people have a right to disagree that RVP's red had no impact

Reply 6304

Darth Maul

Hope Chelsea rape Barca in the next rounds revenge for 09.

Reply 6305

Hantheman

Original post by Darth Maul

So did Barcelona win "fairly" against Chelsea in the infamous semi final screw job of 09?

Funny how much perspective you have.

What comes around goes around. They were lucky one year and in another they weren't.

No they didn't, but I fail to see your point. I never claimed we would have gone through if the ref didn't have a shocker.

My point was every team in the world would lose to Barcelona 9/10 times, you need huge chunks of luck to beat them.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 6306

MoMatrix

The ref didn't make Arsenal lose as such he guaranteed Barcelona's progression.Hindsight is also a wonderful thing but please leave it out with the pathetic RVP would have buried Bendtner's chance.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 6307

Economist

Original post by Kevmeister

What makes you so sure RVP would've been still on at that stage, esp given his fitness levels?

He may not have been, all i'm arguing here is that losing a player, whichever position they play can have a big impact

Reply 6308

username310124

Original post by zxh800

No, you're the idiot.

Only two teams in Spain have realistic chances of winning the title. In England we have at least 3 and in previous years all 4. Liverpool and Arsenal have come close to winning the title. In Spain it's always a straight out fight beterrn Madrid and Barca.

Only 2 teams in England have a realistic chance of winning. All Arsenal and Liverpool do is bottle it against the smaller teams. Thats from a Liverpool fan aswell. Its the same old same old. Arsenal can't even raise their game against Birmingham ffs. :rolleyes:

And fyi, 5 La Liga teams have won the league in the time span that 4 teams have won the prem in England.

And its only in the last 2 years that Real Madrid and Barcelona have really pushed ahead of the rest. In 07-08 Villarreal came 2nd. There is also much, much more competition for the CL places in La Liga. In the prem it was always the big 4. Only recently have City and Spurs challenged (noticable mention to Everton though). In La Liga you have Barca, Real, Sevilla, Valencia, Villarreal, Atletico Madrid, Mallorca, and the odd push from Bilbao, Espanyol and Deportivo.

Reply 6309

Psychotic546

Chesney only has a dislocated finger which is good news. Should be back very soon.

RVP interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqG1xxk6afk

No word of a lie...

Cesc's twitter:

Great support from the arsenal fans. I take full blame for the result tonight. One of the worst moments of my life. I apologise

Jack's twitter:

"Arsenal fans great as always! Sorry about the result,good luck to Barca,great team! Oh yeah and the ref was good aswell.... "

Do hope UEFA don't fine us for speaking out against refs or this is getting expensive. Wenger was also at it :biggrin:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 6310

yunghamz

Original post by MoMatrix

The ref didn't make Arsenal lose as such he guaranteed Barcelona's progression.Hindsight is also a wonderful thing but please leave it out with the pathetic RVP would have buried Bendtner's chance.

Lol, this, i really don't understand why people are debating this. I actually think it would have been harder for RVP as he would have to take it on his weaker foot since pressure was coming from the left, but then again he is a beast. All we can do is blame Bendtner, it was a chance begging to be shot first time.

Reply 6311

username366985

I hope Spurs go through and draw Barca. Please, oh please.

Note on the game:

We wen't to the Camp Nou, played our defensive hearts out but in the end it wasn't enough. Barca deserved it in footballing terms over the two legs, moreso on tonights game, but the movement and precision of passing for that Xavi goal was out of this world. We stayed in it though. Niki B had a sniff of a chance late but couldn't take it control, I thought he should of taken it first time.

But we were destined to lose from when van Persie got sent off. Would the result of been any different if he had stayed on? Who knows. Tonights game wasn't make or break for the season, although I still hoped we could do em', but it wasn't to be. The cup game on MAN U is make or break for the season. The double is still on offering. Funny that though, QUADRUPLE! Damnit. Treble. Damnit. Double?! COME ON YOU GOONERS!

All in all, we were outplayed, but credit to the boys for giving everything, defensive wise. Almunia prevented it from being an embarrasing scoreline, good on him. Man of the match, in my opinion was Clichy, or Almunia.

Reply 6312

Danny.

Original post by CB91

you obviously dont know the Barca system if you think "allows at least one more Barca player to venture forward". Barca always leave their 2 CB's and DM back and the rest of the team attack. With or without Van Persie running after them, they were never going to commit another player forward when they didnt need too against a dangerous team.

Go and watch the game again and see if Barcas back line are further up with RvP sent off, they are, it's just a fact.

Original post by CB91

I'm not anti-Arsenal. I'm just sick and tired of football fans blaming everyone but there own players. You lost because your team isnt good enough and you were completely dominated, not because of the ref.

I'm blaming everyone except Arsenal players? I'm not blaming the ref for us losing, if you read my other post I said we were completely out played by a team that I think is the best team ever. This stated because you said "RvP sending off didn't have a single impact on the game", which it did and I've gave you the reasons. Again I haven't blamed anyone for us losing the game, Barca were just too good. I never said we lost because of the ref, although he was shambolic for both sides re the sending off and not giving the Messi pen. So I have no idea why you are even saying the above.

Original post by CB91

What utter nonsense. Especially the bolded bit. So by playing you gain some extra, magical knowledge? Stop talking crap.

And fyi, I have played at an extremely low level.

Playing the game at a decent level gives you a better perspective yes! It's not crap at all, illustrated by you not understanding how RvP's sending off changes the game. Exactly, you've played it at an extremely low level, which is why I can understand that you don't get how the sending off changes the game with players having to press more, less pressure, not an outlet etc. People that have played the game and experienced that will understand it.

Reply 6313

Darth Maul

Original post by Hantheman

That's an unjustified, unverified claim.

Here is my version

Every team in the world would lose to Manchester United 9/10 times

Barca play in the la liga where teams aren't as good at they are in the Premier League. Barca are poor when they come away to England. They are an over rated unproven team at the moment. And I doubt they will win the champions league this season.

Reply 6314

username310124

Original post by Economist

Well of course there job isnt to only shoot. :rolleyes:

But Van Persie was hardly hounding the Barca defence. He made little to no impact when he was on the pitch. Busquets only pushes up momentarily and then he drops back.

And that chance at the end. He would have done better than Bendtner who is actually awful. Srsly, how many chances does that guy need to score? But there is absolutely no guarentee that he would have scored if it had even fell for him in the first place.

Reply 6315

Darth Maul

Original post by MoMatrix

The ref didn't make Arsenal lose as such he guaranteed Barcelona's progression.Hindsight is also a wonderful thing but please leave it out with the pathetic RVP would have buried Bendtner's chance.

Shut your mouth you fool.

Reply 6316

RNBen

Original post by Economist

I didn't say you created no chances(if it came across that way then it was a miscommunication), Barca did have to defend a couple of times, but they got rid of the threat far too easily for Arsenal to really be considered a contender for the majority of the tie, in my opinion.

You may well have lost a lone forward, but later on in the game you had Bendtner and Arshavin on the pitch, as well as Nasri trying to do what he could to get another goal. The Barcelona defence were just too strong for any kind of offence that Arsenal could throw their way.

Yes, obviously people are entitled to their own opinion, everything I have posted is completely my opinion and in no way do I claim that I speak for the masses. I merely watched the game as a neutral, though admittedly would have loved to see Arsenal go through.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 6317

Danny.

Original post by Kenan and Kel

Chelsea and even United will have 'em

Reply 6318

username310124

Original post by Danny.

Go and watch the game again and see if Barcas back line are further up with RvP sent off, they are, it's just a fact.

I'm not watching the game again. What a waste of time that would be. :lolwut:

And there is a difference between the whole of Barcas defence being slightly higher, as opposed to "allowing another player to get forward" as you put it. The two are different things.

I was mainly talking about other fans. You seem to more grounded than most tbh.

Sending offs do change nearly every game. But in this one it didnt, you were getting spanked either way.

Reply 6319

Danny.

Original post by Complex Simplicity

Kl

Yes. Experience. Why do you think most managers, coaches, analysts are ex footballers?

Experience is the biggest teacher. There's only so much you can understand by simple watching.