Females in Medicine: A Waste of Money.

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Remember just because there are more women in medical school, it doensn't mean that more women applied than men.

Why can't a father look after the children? You are suggesting that the women is the better and most active parent by default. It's not knee jerk at all, you're posts were not well explained at all and wreaked on sexism. This post is better but is still very stereotypical.

Why do you think it is that when a couple divorce or split, the judge almost always awards custody of babies and young children to the mother? Do you accuse judges of being sexist? Or could it be that babies naturally need to be with their mothers, an inconvenient fact for people who think it's ok for a father to bring up a baby on his own.

I’d like to state that I’m not sexist and I don’t think females are any less capable in terms of their medical ability (intelligence, communication skills and perseverance). In fact, I think its common knowledge that females outperform males in pre-medical-school exams.

My point is simple: Women doctors are a poor financial investment for the country.

Lets look at some figures:

57% of medical school entrants are female. After four years post-qualification, 44% of pre-ST (years 1-4) doctors are female. By the time these doctors reach a senior stage, 28% of consultants (year 9-10+) are female.

At FY1-FY2 (year 1-2) level there is a 35% attrition rate - females leaving the profession as compared to how many entered at medical school level. At Registrar (year 4+) level there is a 45% total attrition rate, rising to 55% by the time that cohort reaches consultant level.

So in summary: A whopping 55% of female doctors pursuing a medical job never reach the senior consultant level.

It costs the country £237,000 to train each medical student. The money is “made back” through the career of the doctor that is produced at the end. However, because experience is the most valuable asset in medicine, the majority of the money is re-earned when the doctor reaches seniority, as reflected by the relative pay given to locum (ad hoc) doctors at senior and junior levels. If more than half of female doctors have been unable to reach that senior level, then this presents a huge financial loss to the taxpayer compared to male doctors.

But it’s not just the fact that more female doctors leave medicine than male doctors. It’s also important to look at the females that stay in medicine.

1. More female doctors tend to work part-time.
2. Female doctors tend to retire earlier.
3. Females are less likely to take part in teaching and academic work [a big contributor to paying back that £237,000 it takes to train a medical student]

Because females tend to pick certain specialties much more than others (psychiatry, general practice, pediatrics) their erratic working patterns (maternity leave and part-time working) puts strain on these specialties because of poor continuity of care.

It is interesting to compare this with the non-medical criteria that medical schools use in selecting students. They want:

A life-long dedication to medicine: But female doctors are more likely to leave medicine, work less than their male counterparts and retire earlier.

Doctors who will contribute to medical science and become leaders of the medical field: But female doctors do less research and are less likely to become consultants.

What’s the solution?

Well, equal opportunities say that you can’t keep quotas. And to suggest that would be “outrageous”. But if the country really feels that they’re paying too much for medical care or that there isn’t enough easily available medical care, then may be in this isn’t such a bad idea. By keeping a quota like 25% females, you also get the added benefit of only the most dedicated female applicants actually entering the process and thus an improvement in all the negative female traits in medicine.

I mean…equal opportunities is all well and good when it’s not your business that has to suffer – that’s why so many equal opportunities laws are passed!. But in this case and in this country, it is sort of your business. It’s everyone’s money that’s being wasted. Do you want to do something about it?

At this point I think ill open this discussion to the rest of you…

I’d like to state that I’m not sexist and I don’t think females are any less capable in terms of their medical ability (intelligence, communication skills and perseverance). In fact, I think its common knowledge that females outperform males in pre-medical-school exams.

My point is simple: Women doctors are a poor financial investment for the country.

Lets look at some figures:

57% of medical school entrants are female. After four years post-qualification, 44% of pre-ST (years 1-4) doctors are female. By the time these doctors reach a senior stage, 28% of consultants (year 9-10+) are female.

At FY1-FY2 (year 1-2) level there is a 35% attrition rate - females leaving the profession as compared to how many entered at medical school level. At Registrar (year 4+) level there is a 45% total attrition rate, rising to 55% by the time that cohort reaches consultant level.

So in summary: A whopping 55% of female doctors pursuing a medical job never reach the senior consultant level.

It costs the country £237,000 to train each medical student. The money is “made back” through the career of the doctor that is produced at the end. However, because experience is the most valuable asset in medicine, the majority of the money is re-earned when the doctor reaches seniority, as reflected by the relative pay given to locum (ad hoc) doctors at senior and junior levels. If more than half of female doctors have been unable to reach that senior level, then this presents a huge financial loss to the taxpayer compared to male doctors.

But it’s not just the fact that more female doctors leave medicine than male doctors. It’s also important to look at the females that stay in medicine.

1. More female doctors tend to work part-time.
2. Female doctors tend to retire earlier.
3. Females are less likely to take part in teaching and academic work [a big contributor to paying back that £237,000 it takes to train a medical student]

Because females tend to pick certain specialties much more than others (psychiatry, general practice, pediatrics) their erratic working patterns (maternity leave and part-time working) puts strain on these specialties because of poor continuity of care.

It is interesting to compare this with the non-medical criteria that medical schools use in selecting students. They want:

A life-long dedication to medicine: But female doctors are more likely to leave medicine, work less than their male counterparts and retire earlier.

Doctors who will contribute to medical science and become leaders of the medical field: But female doctors do less research and are less likely to become consultants.

What’s the solution?

Well, equal opportunities say that you can’t keep quotas. And to suggest that would be “outrageous”. But if the country really feels that they’re paying too much for medical care or that there isn’t enough easily available medical care, then may be in this isn’t such a bad idea. By keeping a quota like 25% females, you also get the added benefit of only the most dedicated female applicants actually entering the process and thus an improvement in all the negative female traits in medicine.

I mean…equal opportunities is all well and good when it’s not your business that has to suffer – that’s why so many equal opportunities laws are passed!. But in this case and in this country, it is sort of your business. It’s everyone’s money that’s being wasted. Do you want to do something about it?

At this point I think ill open this discussion to the rest of you…

Yes, I agree, in most cases the Mother is the better/ most active parent. That doesn't mean to say that's always the case.

Why is it not OK for fathers to bring up a baby by themselves?

Being a Consultant isn't like being a psychiatrist rather than a gp. It is the highest position of hospital medicine and what doctor is there that doesn't want to be at the highest point of their field? Maybe they couldn't get there, but those who don't even try aren't worth the money spent on them by the government tbh.

yeeeeesh, the car insurance was that males are more likely to have accidents - more cost to the car insurance company, so would pay higher premiums, because it is more of a risk to the car insurance company. okok? It's wasn't based on discrimation, but what gender was going to be more of a risk to the insurance company.

So training people to be GPs isn't worth the money because they can't carry the "consultant" title?

Not every doctor works in a hospital.

Sorry, but you've answered your own question.

3. The best way to solve this problem is to encourage females to stay in medicine. May be - but what are we going to do?

However, more should be done to convince women to stay in the medical profession rather than deny them entry in the first place.

not every doctor wants to be a consultant.

You have to remember that when consultants started medical schools there would be a far lower % of females in medical school. It's not fair to compare % of medical school entrants NOW with consultants NOW.

2. Not everyone wants to be a consultant? Well, thats precisely the problem. Note that consultants add the most value, they deliver the most teaching, they're the people that pay that £237k back the fastest. If someone enters with the desire that they don't want to be a consultant and just want do part-time work, its much much more beneficial to take someone with more ambitious plans.

Re-read the second sentence of my last post. "That doesn't mean its always the case"

So training people to be GPs isn't worth the money because they can't carry the "consultant" title?

Not every doctor works in a hospital.

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And This.



So you are saying EVERYONE who enters the NHS needs to want to be a consultant?
And if they don't want to be one, we don't give them any medical training?
Would you apply that to men aswell?

Why would you NOT WANT TO BE A CONSULTANT?!!! You can give back the most, and contribute to your field as well as developing experience and a background knowledge base.