Imperial College London

London

Imperial VS Oxford

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firstly, The only reason I'm responding to this post is because I have a meeting with my teacher in 15 mins and I have nothing better to do.

The salaries aren't misleading. UCL even has higher starting salaries than Oxford and UCL offers far more degrees than Oxford.

I have a friend who studied Economins at cambridge, he told me it was a waste of time, and now he owns his own business importing cigars from Cuba.

Starting salary is not meaningless by any means.

Can you produce a list of employers who don't look outside of Oxbridge? I bet you can't.

Concerning rigour..who cares, I want to graduate and get a good job and make a boatload of money I could care less which is mroe rigourous, as long as I get a good degree and get a good job etc.

You're comment about oxbridge representation at senior levels is too ambiguous for me to respond to.

spot on! Maybe if you want to go into politics then Oxbridge would be handy.
Medvedev went to LSE and now he is a president of Russia, how can you go higher that that :biggrin:

That guy is sooo biased

Imperial College London

London

Reply 81

i_hate_teeth

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

Exactly my point, it's limited. Comparing average salaries in the presence of arts and science degrees is a waste of time, thank you.

what about UCL though, how do you explain that the avg. starting salary of a UCl graduate is higher than that of both a OXford and cambridge grad

Reply 82

therealOG

Original post by i_hate_teeth

Basically it comes down to this. If you want to play dress up and eat dinner by candlelight in a draughty building and live in a bubble for 3-5 years then go Oxbridge.

If you want to earn alot of money and be an employable person that can releate to people from different backgrounds and socio economic groups go to IC/LSE/UCL.

Legend. Btw, which uni are you going to next year? I forgot...

Reply 83

i_hate_teeth

Original post by therealOG

Legend. Btw, which uni are you going to next year? I forgot...

I firmed Imperial College, and UCL is my insurance choice. I should meet my Imperial offer quite easily tbh.

Reply 84

Bambi2803

I love people defending universities and bigging them up before they even go to them and have seen past the glossy brochure. It's so cute.

Reply 85

i_hate_teeth

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

Starting salaries are completely irrelevant, UCL benefits from employment in London PERIOD. Cambridge Economics graduates command the highest salaries of all graduates in the UK - your imaginary friend anecdote is hilarious. The lists of alumni and the senior levels reached by Oxbridge graduates makes UCL look like a joke - have a look at the proportion of fast track civil servants, ambassadors, judges, barristers, FTSE 100 CEOs. Go chat to the leading management consultancies and look at their intake. How many Non-Oxbridge UK graduates do Mckinsey take ? Have a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Oxford_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Alumni_of_the_University_of_Oxford

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Cambridge_members

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_associated_with_the_University_of_Cambridge

Read, weep and bury your envy elsewhere.

There's nothing imaginary about it. I'm not envious. I'm happy that you go to Oxbridge and I'm happy that I'm going to Imperial. I just think your being a bit idealistic about the job market and what employers really want.

Reply 86

i_hate_teeth

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

The fact that you compare average salaries from a source you refuse to disclose says it all. Comparing averages when comparing apples with oranges is a waste of time. The fact that you fail to recognise that says more about you than it does about my argument. I don't need to compare averages, it's meaningless. Cambridge also appears to be behind KCL, QMW and the lamentable South Bank University, how do you explain that ? I tell you what, go to SBU instead of Cambridge then.

Read back through the thread, I posted a link to the times University guide .pdf file listing the top 20 avg. starting salaries.

Reply 87

danhirons

Original post by Bambi2803

I love people defending universities and bigging them up before they even go to them and have seen past the glossy brochure. It's so cute.

I love this post!!!!

It's definitely a lot harder to get into Oxbridge for most subjects than at Imperial. I remember my interviews, whereas at Oxford they were all testing my technical ability, at Imperial it was just more of a chat about my life outside of study.

Reply 88

Bambi2803

And FTR I just feel like putting this in there.

My firm offer for university was originally my fourth choice. Out of 5 I had 4 interviews. In 3, all three of which were far more 'presitigous' than the fourth, I was interviewed by an academic each time who wasn't so much interested in me as telling me about all the things he'd got published. In the fourth the person actually asked me about what I would be interested in studying, pointed out potential module choices I could take and generally was someone that I could imagine to be my supervisor (which by a stroke of luck, he was). The other ones, my 17 year old self thought 'bloody hell I can't take 3 years being "taught" like this'. So I rejected these offers, to the horror of my school, and went to a place which put far more emphasis on TEACHING.

Caveat: I'm sure not all academics in these universities are like this.

Now I know in the great penis-measuring contest that is The Student Room, prestige is everything, but personally I would like to go to university and feel that my money is being well spent on my education and continuing development and expertise in my subject, rather than the lecturers' research interests, which (to them) are far more interesting than actually helping undergraduates

TL;DR: prestige means nothing IMO if you're poorly taught

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 89

kaosu_souzousha

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

I suggest you go and look at the lists of esteemed alumni from Oxford and Cambridge on wikipedia - it makes your single anecdote look like a joke.

You guess a lot but I got a live example in my family.

Reply 90

kaosu_souzousha

Original post by danhirons

My interview for Imperial was very technical, I guess they just wanted to check if my placement wasn't a lie :biggrin:

Reply 91

Physics Enemy

Original post by i_hate_teeth

The fact remains that on average, if you study at Imperial or UCL, the salary of your first job will be approx £1k-£6k higher than if you studied at Oxbridge. Whether you like it or not, it's a proven fact.

If you live in London you will earn more, but also have far greater expenses. If you go into academia, you will earn less. Cambridge economists all bother to work in London as bankers, and they top the list. When I graduate from Imperial, I'm going to be a tramp. I'll drag the figure down. :smile:

Reply 92

kaosu_souzousha

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

Did you have to do the IELTS ?

If I were you I would refrain from trolling, you are on 15 points.

Yes indeed, IELTS was part of my conditional offer. They wanted 7.5 overall band. My placement was in the manufacturing company specializing in the production of reinforced concrete ( all kind of pre-stressed panels, reinforced armature, industrial wielding etc..).

I apologize for any posts which you found offensive. My main point is that both Universities are one of top in the country and in the world. However depending on your career path, you choose where you want to apply. For political role, oxbridge would definitely give you an edge. But to get to the top of the politics you also need to have a decent lineage. You are absolutely correct from this point. Majority of the people there have a degree from Oxbridge. However if you look at the private industries and organization you will notice that most of the senior level roles are taken by people with a technical degree. Imperial is a specialist engineering university and it will obviously produce a large proportion of people with industrial mindset. So for a conclusion:

Oxbridge -> if you want to pursue a political/governmental role
Imperial -> Industrial based career
Salary wise they are the same, just different career paths.
I hope we will settle on this note.

(P.S. 15 warning point were for posting a youtube video with "according to mods" inappropriate content)

Reply 93

kaosu_souzousha

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

I was being sarcastic about the IELTS, I was implying that English clearly wasn't your first language. The senior level technical roles are taken by Oxbridge science graduates far more often than those from ICL who struggle to obtain management roles and above in industry or otherwise. I was trying to move you, and others, away from this mindset that just because ICL happens to be a science specialist institution does not make it the best or most rigorous for sciences, something that many seem to believe.

They are both darn good and well represented. CEO's or managining directors of Rolls-Royce, Corel, Qinetiq, Commerzbank, BP just to name a few, are all Imperial graduates. But well it's not about the university it's about the people, all of those people have a unique personality and the university is just a little add-on.
Richard Southwood is actually a Vice-Chancellor of Uni. of Oxford and he is an Imperial graduate.
BTW I think we should stop having this conversation about +-7% fluctuation between famous alumni ^^
What do you think about the Japan's disaster? Two nuclear reactors in a meltdown state, terrible stuff!

Reply 94

i_hate_teeth

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

Unfortunately, it isn't a minor fluctuation between famous almuni - Oxbridge are miles ahead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Imperial_College_London_people

And compare this to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Oxford_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Alumni_of_the_University_of_Oxford

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_people_associated_with_the_University_of_Oxford

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rhodes_Scholars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Alumni_of_the_University_of_Cambridge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Cambridge_members

It isn't even close, my friend. The only reason why Oxbridge don't go on about their alumni is because there are so many of them. If you are talking those at senior management levels (and not on an anecdotal basis, ICL is nowhere near I can assure you of that - 23 FTSE 100 companies currently have Oxbridge graduates at their helm.

So i guess that means that you're next in line to become the CEO of a FTSE 100 company?

Reply 95

kaosu_souzousha

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

Quite a bunch of them. But still personality and mentality of these people is what brought them their positions. My relative is the second biggest aluminium supplier in Russia and he didn't even go to uni!

P.S. here is a couple more pages of IC alumni but I think comparing wiki info is bit silly

Spoiler

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 96

LysFromParis

Original post by Bubblyjubbly

That's a stupid way to rank uni.

http://www.boivigny.com/attachment/64195/
http://www.boivigny.com/Classement-des-universites-par-l-Ecole-des-Mines-la-replique-francaise_a385.html

Here the ranking of University by number of people as CEO of fortune 500 company.

Manchester uni is ranked higher than Cambridge, does it means Manchester > Cambridge ????

The only thing it shows is that UK system is not as elitist as other and your own merit matter more than where you studied. I think it's not a bad thing.

Edit 2009 ranking

1 Tokyo Univ
2 Harvard Univ
3 Stanford Univ
4 Waseda Univ
5 Seoul Natl Univ
6 HEC
7= Duke Univ
7= Univ Oxford
7= Univ Pennsylvania
10 ENA
11= Keio Univ
11= Kyoto Univ
13 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT)
14 Ecole Polytechnique
15 Inst for Study of Politics - Paris
16= Cornell Univ
16= Fordham Univ
18= Ecole Natl Super Mines - Paris
18= Columbia Univ
20= Chuo Univ
20= Osaka Univ
20= Univ Arizona
20= Univ Iowa
20= Univ Manchester
20= Univ Polytechnic Madrid

Do you think it reflects in any way their academic achievement ????

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 97

kaosu_souzousha

Original post by LysFromParis

Totally agree with you. Besides it is a bit silly to compare wiki pages as it might be written by some douche lol.

Reply 98

LysFromParis

Original post by kaosu_souzousha

Totally agree with you. Besides it is a bit silly to compare wiki pages as it might be written by some douche lol.

First two documents are not wiki page, it's from Ecoles des Mines Paris-Tech, one of the leading school in France (which did this ranking because French school rank higher this way (top 10) than with the ARWU or THE). They have been criticized because it did not reflect academic quality but some kind of elite replication (something problematic in France, people at higher position come from a very small subset of university/school mainly situated in Paris).